"Success and fame for the Bristol duo continues to shine bright for Mesh"
"Mesh" formed in Bristol at the end of 1991 by Richard (Rich) Silverthorn, Mark Hockings and Neil Taylor, although the band name wasn't born until 1992. All three were already involved in the Bristol music scene in one form or another playing venues such as "The Bristol Bridge Inn" and they seemed destined to work together with paths continually crossing.
Their first recording was a song called "Waste Of Time". Rich already had a piece of music written which he gave to Mark to work on the lyrics and that was the start of 'Mesh'. The release of this demo created a buzz on the music scene. After that they continued to record, working on ideas and the direction they wanted to take the band. One thing they did know was that they wanted to produce their own style, sound and keep control of it. This led to Rich building his own recording studio called "Urban Studios" so the band could keep control of the creative and artistic side of their work.
In the UK they have an underground cult status with their music being played at club nights and gigs selling out to fans. In their home city they have played "The Watershed", "The Mauritania" and "The Bierkeller". The commercial adulation that most manufactured bands seem to crave is something "Mesh" just take in their stride and their fans are very important to the band members. In Europe they are massive with tours, record sales and continual requests to headline festivals.
They have released five studio albums - "Fragile" (1994), "In This Place Forever" (1996), "The Point At Which This Falls Apart" (1999), "Who Watches Over Me?" (2002), "We Collide" (2006), plus "Fragmente" (1998 and 2002) the latter a double compilation best of remixes and alternative versions of songs previously released - and countless singles including "Crash", "Friends Like These", "Leave You Nothing", "Waves", "Not Prepared" and "It Scares Me".
In September 2006 Neil Taylor decided to leave the band. It was something he had been thinking about doing for sometime. There was no split, no animosity, in fact it was all very amicable. Neil wanted to pursue other projects outside of music and all three remain friends with Neil still following the career path of "Mesh".
In between their hectic schedule I caught up with Rich Silverthorne for an interview at 'Urban Studios' and was also shown their latest DVD release "The World's A Big Place", live in concert and I have to say it is very impressive indeed!
Rich began describing the type of music Mesh produce. "It's kind of electronic based music. It's all done using computers and samplers but also there is the live aspect of it with guitars and drums but primarily it's a kind of programmed music with a kind of rocky edge to it. If you took a big pot and threw in 'Garbage', 'The Prodigy', 'Nine Inch Nails', 'Depeche Mode' and you gave it a good stir you'd probably get somewhere close to what we do really".
The band's first release was "Waste Of Time", a song written by Rich and Mark, but was it hard to get the attention they needed in the beginning? "It was really difficult. It's the same with any band. Every band has a problem of getting noticed." says Rich. "You do these demos and then you send them out to the record company's and initially it was nothing really special. And then we done some more recording and started honing in our recording techniques and got better and better at it. Then almost overnight we got a lot of interest from all the major record company's in this Country. It was almost overwhelming really. This was where it was all going to take off." he says.
"But the A&R people were almost trying to change our sound and asking 'can you do it to make it sound a bit more like this' or 'can you move the chords of this track and put it somewhere else'. We'd go back in the studio and do this for them and send them a tape and it was like 'oh that A&R guy has left'. We got so cheesed off with the whole thing, how the industry works." Says Rich on the ever changing UK music industry.
"We ended up having a demo in a magazine called 'Future Music' and they picked up on us. They asked us would we be prepared to present a track for them for their very first cover mounted magazine with a CD on it. Back then that was something really special. Nobody was giving away CD's like they do now-a-days. So we did that and on the back of that we had so many people contact us up and down the Country saying they really loved our track, are we planning to do anything, put an album out and on the back of that I think it gave us that push. We began thinking we could possibly do this on our own without the help of a record label or anything like that so we done a pressing of about 500 copies of our demo album. We distributed it and sold it and it went really really well. We were overwhelmed that we'd sold that many. You start off by selling like half a dozen demo tapes and then all of a sudden we sold 500 CD's really quickly. After that we got picked up by a record label in Sweden and then Germany and it just got bigger and bigger from there on really". And a rare smile is seen on Rich's face.
After their experience with the British record companies the band decided they wanted to keep their own sound and identity rather than a record company take control. "With all our record companies up until now they've always left us alone to do exactly what we wanted. We didn't want anybody coming in saying you need to do this you need to do that. It was a case of just getting on with it and the record companies were prepared to get the album out in it's finished state and that's still how we work today. We control everything here, write the songs, do the production and do the recording ourselves. We basically give it to our record label when we're finished" he says with great satisfaction.
When Mesh first started out they were a trio. Today they are duo and I wondered what roles each member took on in the band. "Initially we were all into keyboards and the electronic thing. Sampling, programming and when I first met Mark he was doing that job in another band. He did one track, he sung on one track and I thought this guy has got a really good voice. I approached Mark and said would you be interested in doing some other work and that's where the kind of Mesh thing started. So we all were programmers and we were all into keyboards but Mark took the role of being the singer. As time went on I think we all kind of found our own little niche in the band and what to do. So Neil was more the business side because that obviously took off so much with record companies, publishers and promotion so he took on that role. Mark carried on being the singer/songwriter and then I was the kind of the producer, programmer doing most of the studio work" explained Rich.
Musically though did Mesh use real instruments when recording and playing live? "Yes we do. Initially we were very electronic and it was all programmed. As time went on we wanted to add more live instruments into the show because it just looked kind of static. It wasn't exciting and most electronic bands, nine times out of ten they are miming to something. It's because that's the way the music is, you've got to programme it or you are either stood there playing to a backing track or to some kind of sequencer. So we took the bold step and said we need a drummer to take on the drumming parts of the songs and all the guitar parts we said we'd do and started playing live. A lot of the keyboards are played live now."
So what about the song writing? Is it shared between you and Mark I ask. "It can go one of two ways really. Mark, he often writes with acoustic guitar. He writes a song in very basic form, so it comes out almost like a folk song. It's just literally acoustic and him singing. Or I will programme a piece of music in song form so it would be verse, chorus, verse, chorus just roughly and give it to Mark. He would come back with some lyrics over the top and an idea for a melody and then in the studio we strip it right back down and start again, so you know where you are going with it, you have an idea, so that's how we do it really." Rich makes it sound so straight forward.
But does he ever write song lyrics himself? "No I don't but I can tell you what Mark writes about. He takes a lot from life and experiences he's had. I know on the last album it was a lot of things he saw on television and just things in general that kind of shock you or make you sit down and really think about things. I think that's where he gets most of his inspiration from. A lot of his songs sound very kind of lovey dovey, ummm ... no not lovey dovey that's the wrong word, kind of almost like love songs. If you actually listen to the lyrics and really get into them most of them are nothing like what you imagined them to be. He never really gives away what the song is all about even though I know. People interpret it in different ways and I think that is really good. All the bands I used to like, I used to listen to it and get really drawn into the song and think what the hell's all that about? Or it would have some kind of meaning to you where the chances are it didn't mean anything like that to the songwriter. So usually he doesn't give much stuff away about what the songs are about really." Rich says cryptically.
Mesh have great success in Europe but in the UK their music seems to have been ignored by the mainstream market, why? "We have got a very loyal fan base in the UK. We can play shows in London and 700 - 800 people or more will turn up at a venue we are playing. We have done quite a few shows up and down the Country and we always get a crowd but whether it is a big crowd or not it's difficult to say. Some venues we sell out but I think we concentrated on Europe because it's a really healthy scene over there. The music scene is so professional. The people there are prepared to put money into it and make it a success whereas the UK is very ....... well you are either nothing or you are massive. There isn't any halfway ground anymore. It's changed to what it used to be. Places like Germany, Scandinavia, most of Europe. In fact we've been to places such as Russia and the response is really big crowds where ever we go". says Rich
The band have also travelled to the USA and plan to go back. "We did have an album promoted over there and we have done a few shows too. In fact we flew out just before the Twin Towers disaster and flew out to Chicago and ended with a show in New York which was sold out. We were absolutely gobsmacked. We had never been to New York before and we sold out this club and that was really cool. Then we went down to Orlando and we also played in Texas. So we have been there but it has never been an extensive tour or proper tour, it's only been one off shows or a several shows at a time. It's one of those things we'd really like to explore and give it a go because I think you haven't got to make it massive in America to make a lot of money and become quite successful. It's one of those things on our list to try really".
The guys seem to go out doing concerts on a regular basis but how do they transfer what we hear on CD to the stage? "When we've written a song we always try and interpret it in a slightly different way live just to try and make it interesting for people. We strip everything down and change sounds and possibly try to speed things up to give that dancey feel to it or extend tracks to make them more interesting. That's how we do it. We'll replace some of the programmed sections with real instruments and I think it gives a whole different feet really." Rich explains
So given the choice between their own tours or headlining festivals which do Mark and Rich prefer doing? "I think we love doing our own tours. When you do your own tours you know that all the people that are there have come to see you and it's a great atmosphere. It's like our whole family going on the road and going to visit all these people. It's fantastic. Saying that, the whole festival thing is good because you get to meet new people and get to play your music to people who have most probably never heard of you or seen you, so it's kind of 50/50 but I think if I had to be pushed I would say our own tours are better."
Mesh recently did a couple festivals in France and Germany which showed how versatile they can be on stage. I just couldn't resist asking how it all went. "You know how it went!" says Rich laughing. "France was quite good. We've not played there often to be honest with you so that was probably a thousand people I guess in a club. That was quite good to go back and do something different. It's quite challenging with Countries you haven't played that much in. And then we had an overnight stint straight to Cologne. We were on the main stage and there was probably about 8,000 people maybe more. It was fantastic, it was one of the better shows. It was rather memorable because our instruments crashed while we were on stage. Both mine and Jeff's keyboards broke down and all the sequencing broke and stopped The only thing that was left was our drummer and us singing. But it was really good because the whole crowd joined in and we were getting everybody going. We did one number literally all the way through accapella but it made the whole thing so memorable. It was really good" he says confidently.
During the interview Rich is showing me the band's new live in concert DVD due for release the end of November and there are only four people on the stage. "Yes. That's all we need" says Rich laughing. "There is some sequencing. There are noises coming out of keyboards that are programmed and then we have a live drummer who has a hell of a job keeping up with us because, obviously in that situation he has to play with the programmed music whereas in a normal band situation the drummer would be the time keeper but in our situation it's different. And then there are two keyboard players, myself and a guy called Jeff and Mark singing, so there is quite a lot going on really."
And with Mark and Rich touring so much how many people does it really involve to get the Mesh show on the road? "There's about ten people behind the scenes that make everything work. We have a very strong family bond crew. We have a sound man, a lighting man, keyboard technicians, three or four roadies, a girl who does our merchandising and controls that kind of thing. We also have a tour manager, a bus driver, so it's really good. What you see on stage is four guys jumping up and down doing their bit but the main body of work is done all through the day by these other guys who work really really hard" says Rich giving credit to the behind scenes team.
From my sister Jo I keep hearing how good the Mesh shows are and I asked how much artistic and creative input he and Mark gave to their live performances. "I'd say 99%. As a band we've always been control freaks which in some ways can be a very negative. But we've never liked to let anything go. Right from the start we always used to do the recording, the writing, the production. Neil used to do all the art work, all the CD covers, the photography. We felt very proud, every time we put an album out as it was us. Nobody else involved. It wasn't some technical guy doing all the music for us. We've always felt like we need to control this, we like putting out what is essentially 99% us. In a live show we do a big video production and that's been done by us as well. So we spend a bit of time capturing images on video, editing it and making these whole shows in the background. So yeah, basically it's all us really." he says
With live concert footage being screened in the background whilst I was doing this interview I noticed some up close shots and wondered how Rich felt having a camera in his face all the time. "It was quite good actually. It was very eye opening I guess and it was the last show of the tour." he says "We had six guys there with high quality professional cameras capturing everything we were doing. It was slightly intimidating in the sense that you've got somebody almost up your nostrils with a camera and watching what you are doing with your hands. Towards the end it was quite good, you knew they were there and you knew what to expect from them and it was alright. I think, you know, they've captured it quite well. You'll get to see it all when the DVD comes out". Rich says enthusiastically.
But how does filming a live concert differ from making a video for the latest single release? "It's completely different really. I've never felt really comfortable doing videos because we're not actors." And Rich starts laughing. "I mean it's one of those things where you crack up laughing because you feel so embarrassed and almost like a fish out of water when you are asked to do certain roles and certain things in videos. Whereas the live thing I felt reasonably comfortable because it's what we do. We knew what we were doing and it's just somebody capturing that. Making videos is a completely different thing" and he continues laughing because he does find that an uncomfortable experience.
Rich and Mark are so proud of originating from Bristol. They still live in the city and have never been tempted to move away. "I am very patriotic as a person and very proud of the fact that we are from Bristol. In most interviews we do all over the world, it's something that comes up and it's something I like to put in. So when they say where do you come from I don't say the UK I always say we come from Bristol in the UK. We are quite proud of it regardless of whether people know us in Bristol. We continue to do shows and we did a show last year at the Bristol Bierkeller and we are back there again in November and also playing Manchester and London. We are looking forward to playing Bristol because it's our home and we'll be playing in front of family and friends." Another rare smile appears on his face.
Being a Bristol lad I wondered if any of his school mates remembered him from school and what they would say about his chosen career. "I don't know really. They probably wouldn't think much of it because they might not know who we are. However I did have someone contact me through Friends Reunited who I used to go to school with. He lives in Australia now. He wrote to me and said he was desperately trying to break into the music business and he couldn't believe that we were or rather I was doing so well. He was asking who to contact and what to do so I gave him some advice. I hope it helped. So that was quite nice really. Somebody I knew from my distant past obviously, contacting me".
With X-Factor back on TV did Rich think these type of shows damage the music business, after all it skips the apprenticeship stage that most bands and artists go through. "Possibly now, yes. I think the initial idea was great. It was really interesting as it had the nation gripped. They were looking for somebody as they used to years ago like on 'New Faces' and 'Opportunity Knocks'. It was kind of like a new old idea, it was really good but now I think history has shown that if you win you are not necessarily going to capture the nation to support you. There are so many people who have won it and disappeared almost over night so I'm not totally convinced that it's a great thing anymore." says Rich
But does the show try and make the music business too easy after all it's instant fame isn't it? "I think the massive point they miss with all those shows is that there are people on the show that can sing and they are fantastic singers. They are looking for a brilliant singer, but pop music isn't about brilliant singers. It's about characters and personas and you know being right characters and I think a lot of these people just haven't got that. You only get that through doing it the hard way by serving your apprenticeship and over coming obstacles along the way and I think that's what's missing. I think that's what they don't realise. And they are still looking for the perfect singer." he says analytically.
With the success of Mesh, has that enabled you and Mark to give up your day jobs? "Yes it has. In the year 2000 we got approached by Sony Colombia and they offered us a very nice sum of money to be honest to do two albums for them. It was something we had to think long and hard about. We have families, we had careers and jobs and we thought it's a chance of a lifetime. Most bands never get anywhere near that stage being offered that sort of money, so we decided to take it. We gave up our jobs and pursued it as best we could really. But the music business has changed so much now with downloads and the whole kind of record sales that it's not big business and we realise that and if we are going to carry on we need to almost fund it as well. So we decided that we'd keep the money and also do a part-time job and go back and keep our careers on hold. But if anything went wrong it was always there as something to fall back on so that's where we are at really. I'm in a position where I can if I want to, spend so many weeks in the studio and get paid or go and do my normal job and get paid for that as well" says Rich
So who influences Mark and Rich in a music sense? "It's quite funny. When we met we had very similar record collections and it was all from the kind of very early electronic stuff and the Mute stuff. Mute records had the 'Silicone Teens', 'Yazoo', 'Depeche Mode' and all those kind of early pioneers of electronic music. The other day when we played in Cologne and there was a band there called 'Portion Control'. They were one of those bands I was really into as a youngster and it was just so funny to be able to just walk up to them, say hello and have a chat. They were lower down the bill, they were the first artists on that day and we're kind of five or six bands above them now you know and that was quite an honour really. It was good music so it's all that kind of really early electronic bands, that were trying to make it something interesting. Although the 80's were being renowned for 'Kajagoogoo' and that kind of crap, I was more into the music that people hadn't really heard of, the dark underground electronic sound".
Not only do Mesh do their own work, they also do remixes and dance mixes for other bands and artists. "We've done that a few times." Rich says modestly never over stating their success. "I suppose it's a reasonable amount of money you can charge. I think people come to you because you are a named artist. I don't think it's that easy for anybody sat in their bedroom. There are thousands of people up and down the Country that are really good at it, but they won't be approached because they are not a name. I think people are after, for example 'Can we have a Mesh remix' and can we put the words 'Mesh remix' on it? So there is a means of making some money by doing that and it's also a means of getting to new people as well. If they like the remix or dance version we've done of their favourite artist track they are probably going to think who the hell are 'Mesh' and search out our music too. We are always happy to work with other bands and artists and remix their tracks." he says with feet firmly planted on the ground.
I had to ask Rich if there was an ultimate band or artiste he would love to do a remix for. "I'm a very big fan of a guy called Trent Resner, obviously Nine Inch Nails. I think he was very inspirational. I mean he took the whole electronic thing and turned it on it's head really by doing something really weird with it, making it distorted and almost present it in a very heavy rock way. It's produced in the same way as Madonna would do with her albums, it's all done in a studio with computers. It was kind of just a different take on it in it's day. It was really kind of inspirational for me and he still turns out some really good stuff now. Yeah ... I would love to have a go at something of his" says Rich.
Rich mentioned briefly about downloads and the way the music industry is changing in the way they are selling music to the public. I pushed him a little further on the subject. Are downloads killing music? "I'm really on the fence about this ... Possibly. I don't think it is killing music it is changing music" he says thoughtfully. "It is the way youngsters perceive music today. It is different to how I used to perceive it. You used to save up your money and rush out and buy the new single by your favourite artist the day it came out. You would have a record collection and the whole thing of having record sleeves and CD covers. I used to read the thing from cover to cover. Who produced it, the musicians, lyrics and this, that and the other. That was the whole thing for me. You know what I mean and that's what I really enjoyed about buying music. Where as I think kids today are so used to getting it for free, they wouldn't even think that they are doing anything wrong which is fair enough because they don't know any different. I think it's almost devalued music in a way which is a shame really because I think you know life without music would be a very sad place. As much as I hate to say it the music industry is a business. For artists to make high quality records there has to be some money input from somewhere, be it a record company, publishing company and these people can only get their money by selling the music so it's almost catch 22 situation. You can't just keep downloading for free or borrowing it off your mate and burning a copy of your favourite band's latest CD release. Otherwise music will just disappear and it will disappear and that would be very sad indeed".
Robbie Williams and members of Depeche Mode are great fans of Mesh. The band also went on tour with Gary Newman a few years ago and with Rich being a fan of his music he saw Gary Newman in Bristol. Had a great time but he got some unexpected attention. "Gary was really good but during the concert I got spotted a few times by the Numan fans which was very nice. I had three or four people ask for autographs and photographs whilst I was actually there so I was quite flattered really" being a little humble with his experience.
So what about the future for Mesh. What can we expect? "We have the DVD being released in November, which seems to have taken absolutely forever to put together. It shouldn't have taken this long but we've had issues with record companies, publishers due to the fact that we've had old songs and new songs on this DVD but we've managed to get through that. Of course we are doing three shows in November as well, Bristol, Manchester and London which we are really looking forward to. And Mark and I are feeling quite inspired to start working on a new album. We've got several tracks already written in very basic form but we're just about ready to start work on it and get back into the recording studio" says Rich
And with that Rich is pleased he got through the interview quite successfully. I have to say he made it so easy to interview him. He is proud of his achievements but doesn't shout it from the roof tops. There are no strops or I won't answer that question and he is quite relaxed and happy with his lot. Of course he would love to see Mesh become far bigger in the UK than they already are and both he and Mark have ambitions to tour the USA. All I can say is good luck to them. They deserve success where ever they go. I'm now off to raid my Mesh CD collection again to be reminded just how good they are!.
Mesh Links:
Official Web Site: http://www.mesh.co.uk/
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/meshwecollide
Their first recording was a song called "Waste Of Time". Rich already had a piece of music written which he gave to Mark to work on the lyrics and that was the start of 'Mesh'. The release of this demo created a buzz on the music scene. After that they continued to record, working on ideas and the direction they wanted to take the band. One thing they did know was that they wanted to produce their own style, sound and keep control of it. This led to Rich building his own recording studio called "Urban Studios" so the band could keep control of the creative and artistic side of their work.
In the UK they have an underground cult status with their music being played at club nights and gigs selling out to fans. In their home city they have played "The Watershed", "The Mauritania" and "The Bierkeller". The commercial adulation that most manufactured bands seem to crave is something "Mesh" just take in their stride and their fans are very important to the band members. In Europe they are massive with tours, record sales and continual requests to headline festivals.
They have released five studio albums - "Fragile" (1994), "In This Place Forever" (1996), "The Point At Which This Falls Apart" (1999), "Who Watches Over Me?" (2002), "We Collide" (2006), plus "Fragmente" (1998 and 2002) the latter a double compilation best of remixes and alternative versions of songs previously released - and countless singles including "Crash", "Friends Like These", "Leave You Nothing", "Waves", "Not Prepared" and "It Scares Me".
In September 2006 Neil Taylor decided to leave the band. It was something he had been thinking about doing for sometime. There was no split, no animosity, in fact it was all very amicable. Neil wanted to pursue other projects outside of music and all three remain friends with Neil still following the career path of "Mesh".
In between their hectic schedule I caught up with Rich Silverthorne for an interview at 'Urban Studios' and was also shown their latest DVD release "The World's A Big Place", live in concert and I have to say it is very impressive indeed!
Rich began describing the type of music Mesh produce. "It's kind of electronic based music. It's all done using computers and samplers but also there is the live aspect of it with guitars and drums but primarily it's a kind of programmed music with a kind of rocky edge to it. If you took a big pot and threw in 'Garbage', 'The Prodigy', 'Nine Inch Nails', 'Depeche Mode' and you gave it a good stir you'd probably get somewhere close to what we do really".
The band's first release was "Waste Of Time", a song written by Rich and Mark, but was it hard to get the attention they needed in the beginning? "It was really difficult. It's the same with any band. Every band has a problem of getting noticed." says Rich. "You do these demos and then you send them out to the record company's and initially it was nothing really special. And then we done some more recording and started honing in our recording techniques and got better and better at it. Then almost overnight we got a lot of interest from all the major record company's in this Country. It was almost overwhelming really. This was where it was all going to take off." he says.
"But the A&R people were almost trying to change our sound and asking 'can you do it to make it sound a bit more like this' or 'can you move the chords of this track and put it somewhere else'. We'd go back in the studio and do this for them and send them a tape and it was like 'oh that A&R guy has left'. We got so cheesed off with the whole thing, how the industry works." Says Rich on the ever changing UK music industry.
"We ended up having a demo in a magazine called 'Future Music' and they picked up on us. They asked us would we be prepared to present a track for them for their very first cover mounted magazine with a CD on it. Back then that was something really special. Nobody was giving away CD's like they do now-a-days. So we did that and on the back of that we had so many people contact us up and down the Country saying they really loved our track, are we planning to do anything, put an album out and on the back of that I think it gave us that push. We began thinking we could possibly do this on our own without the help of a record label or anything like that so we done a pressing of about 500 copies of our demo album. We distributed it and sold it and it went really really well. We were overwhelmed that we'd sold that many. You start off by selling like half a dozen demo tapes and then all of a sudden we sold 500 CD's really quickly. After that we got picked up by a record label in Sweden and then Germany and it just got bigger and bigger from there on really". And a rare smile is seen on Rich's face.
After their experience with the British record companies the band decided they wanted to keep their own sound and identity rather than a record company take control. "With all our record companies up until now they've always left us alone to do exactly what we wanted. We didn't want anybody coming in saying you need to do this you need to do that. It was a case of just getting on with it and the record companies were prepared to get the album out in it's finished state and that's still how we work today. We control everything here, write the songs, do the production and do the recording ourselves. We basically give it to our record label when we're finished" he says with great satisfaction.
When Mesh first started out they were a trio. Today they are duo and I wondered what roles each member took on in the band. "Initially we were all into keyboards and the electronic thing. Sampling, programming and when I first met Mark he was doing that job in another band. He did one track, he sung on one track and I thought this guy has got a really good voice. I approached Mark and said would you be interested in doing some other work and that's where the kind of Mesh thing started. So we all were programmers and we were all into keyboards but Mark took the role of being the singer. As time went on I think we all kind of found our own little niche in the band and what to do. So Neil was more the business side because that obviously took off so much with record companies, publishers and promotion so he took on that role. Mark carried on being the singer/songwriter and then I was the kind of the producer, programmer doing most of the studio work" explained Rich.
Musically though did Mesh use real instruments when recording and playing live? "Yes we do. Initially we were very electronic and it was all programmed. As time went on we wanted to add more live instruments into the show because it just looked kind of static. It wasn't exciting and most electronic bands, nine times out of ten they are miming to something. It's because that's the way the music is, you've got to programme it or you are either stood there playing to a backing track or to some kind of sequencer. So we took the bold step and said we need a drummer to take on the drumming parts of the songs and all the guitar parts we said we'd do and started playing live. A lot of the keyboards are played live now."
So what about the song writing? Is it shared between you and Mark I ask. "It can go one of two ways really. Mark, he often writes with acoustic guitar. He writes a song in very basic form, so it comes out almost like a folk song. It's just literally acoustic and him singing. Or I will programme a piece of music in song form so it would be verse, chorus, verse, chorus just roughly and give it to Mark. He would come back with some lyrics over the top and an idea for a melody and then in the studio we strip it right back down and start again, so you know where you are going with it, you have an idea, so that's how we do it really." Rich makes it sound so straight forward.
But does he ever write song lyrics himself? "No I don't but I can tell you what Mark writes about. He takes a lot from life and experiences he's had. I know on the last album it was a lot of things he saw on television and just things in general that kind of shock you or make you sit down and really think about things. I think that's where he gets most of his inspiration from. A lot of his songs sound very kind of lovey dovey, ummm ... no not lovey dovey that's the wrong word, kind of almost like love songs. If you actually listen to the lyrics and really get into them most of them are nothing like what you imagined them to be. He never really gives away what the song is all about even though I know. People interpret it in different ways and I think that is really good. All the bands I used to like, I used to listen to it and get really drawn into the song and think what the hell's all that about? Or it would have some kind of meaning to you where the chances are it didn't mean anything like that to the songwriter. So usually he doesn't give much stuff away about what the songs are about really." Rich says cryptically.
Mesh have great success in Europe but in the UK their music seems to have been ignored by the mainstream market, why? "We have got a very loyal fan base in the UK. We can play shows in London and 700 - 800 people or more will turn up at a venue we are playing. We have done quite a few shows up and down the Country and we always get a crowd but whether it is a big crowd or not it's difficult to say. Some venues we sell out but I think we concentrated on Europe because it's a really healthy scene over there. The music scene is so professional. The people there are prepared to put money into it and make it a success whereas the UK is very ....... well you are either nothing or you are massive. There isn't any halfway ground anymore. It's changed to what it used to be. Places like Germany, Scandinavia, most of Europe. In fact we've been to places such as Russia and the response is really big crowds where ever we go". says Rich
The band have also travelled to the USA and plan to go back. "We did have an album promoted over there and we have done a few shows too. In fact we flew out just before the Twin Towers disaster and flew out to Chicago and ended with a show in New York which was sold out. We were absolutely gobsmacked. We had never been to New York before and we sold out this club and that was really cool. Then we went down to Orlando and we also played in Texas. So we have been there but it has never been an extensive tour or proper tour, it's only been one off shows or a several shows at a time. It's one of those things we'd really like to explore and give it a go because I think you haven't got to make it massive in America to make a lot of money and become quite successful. It's one of those things on our list to try really".
The guys seem to go out doing concerts on a regular basis but how do they transfer what we hear on CD to the stage? "When we've written a song we always try and interpret it in a slightly different way live just to try and make it interesting for people. We strip everything down and change sounds and possibly try to speed things up to give that dancey feel to it or extend tracks to make them more interesting. That's how we do it. We'll replace some of the programmed sections with real instruments and I think it gives a whole different feet really." Rich explains
So given the choice between their own tours or headlining festivals which do Mark and Rich prefer doing? "I think we love doing our own tours. When you do your own tours you know that all the people that are there have come to see you and it's a great atmosphere. It's like our whole family going on the road and going to visit all these people. It's fantastic. Saying that, the whole festival thing is good because you get to meet new people and get to play your music to people who have most probably never heard of you or seen you, so it's kind of 50/50 but I think if I had to be pushed I would say our own tours are better."
Mesh recently did a couple festivals in France and Germany which showed how versatile they can be on stage. I just couldn't resist asking how it all went. "You know how it went!" says Rich laughing. "France was quite good. We've not played there often to be honest with you so that was probably a thousand people I guess in a club. That was quite good to go back and do something different. It's quite challenging with Countries you haven't played that much in. And then we had an overnight stint straight to Cologne. We were on the main stage and there was probably about 8,000 people maybe more. It was fantastic, it was one of the better shows. It was rather memorable because our instruments crashed while we were on stage. Both mine and Jeff's keyboards broke down and all the sequencing broke and stopped The only thing that was left was our drummer and us singing. But it was really good because the whole crowd joined in and we were getting everybody going. We did one number literally all the way through accapella but it made the whole thing so memorable. It was really good" he says confidently.
During the interview Rich is showing me the band's new live in concert DVD due for release the end of November and there are only four people on the stage. "Yes. That's all we need" says Rich laughing. "There is some sequencing. There are noises coming out of keyboards that are programmed and then we have a live drummer who has a hell of a job keeping up with us because, obviously in that situation he has to play with the programmed music whereas in a normal band situation the drummer would be the time keeper but in our situation it's different. And then there are two keyboard players, myself and a guy called Jeff and Mark singing, so there is quite a lot going on really."
And with Mark and Rich touring so much how many people does it really involve to get the Mesh show on the road? "There's about ten people behind the scenes that make everything work. We have a very strong family bond crew. We have a sound man, a lighting man, keyboard technicians, three or four roadies, a girl who does our merchandising and controls that kind of thing. We also have a tour manager, a bus driver, so it's really good. What you see on stage is four guys jumping up and down doing their bit but the main body of work is done all through the day by these other guys who work really really hard" says Rich giving credit to the behind scenes team.
From my sister Jo I keep hearing how good the Mesh shows are and I asked how much artistic and creative input he and Mark gave to their live performances. "I'd say 99%. As a band we've always been control freaks which in some ways can be a very negative. But we've never liked to let anything go. Right from the start we always used to do the recording, the writing, the production. Neil used to do all the art work, all the CD covers, the photography. We felt very proud, every time we put an album out as it was us. Nobody else involved. It wasn't some technical guy doing all the music for us. We've always felt like we need to control this, we like putting out what is essentially 99% us. In a live show we do a big video production and that's been done by us as well. So we spend a bit of time capturing images on video, editing it and making these whole shows in the background. So yeah, basically it's all us really." he says
With live concert footage being screened in the background whilst I was doing this interview I noticed some up close shots and wondered how Rich felt having a camera in his face all the time. "It was quite good actually. It was very eye opening I guess and it was the last show of the tour." he says "We had six guys there with high quality professional cameras capturing everything we were doing. It was slightly intimidating in the sense that you've got somebody almost up your nostrils with a camera and watching what you are doing with your hands. Towards the end it was quite good, you knew they were there and you knew what to expect from them and it was alright. I think, you know, they've captured it quite well. You'll get to see it all when the DVD comes out". Rich says enthusiastically.
But how does filming a live concert differ from making a video for the latest single release? "It's completely different really. I've never felt really comfortable doing videos because we're not actors." And Rich starts laughing. "I mean it's one of those things where you crack up laughing because you feel so embarrassed and almost like a fish out of water when you are asked to do certain roles and certain things in videos. Whereas the live thing I felt reasonably comfortable because it's what we do. We knew what we were doing and it's just somebody capturing that. Making videos is a completely different thing" and he continues laughing because he does find that an uncomfortable experience.
Rich and Mark are so proud of originating from Bristol. They still live in the city and have never been tempted to move away. "I am very patriotic as a person and very proud of the fact that we are from Bristol. In most interviews we do all over the world, it's something that comes up and it's something I like to put in. So when they say where do you come from I don't say the UK I always say we come from Bristol in the UK. We are quite proud of it regardless of whether people know us in Bristol. We continue to do shows and we did a show last year at the Bristol Bierkeller and we are back there again in November and also playing Manchester and London. We are looking forward to playing Bristol because it's our home and we'll be playing in front of family and friends." Another rare smile appears on his face.
Being a Bristol lad I wondered if any of his school mates remembered him from school and what they would say about his chosen career. "I don't know really. They probably wouldn't think much of it because they might not know who we are. However I did have someone contact me through Friends Reunited who I used to go to school with. He lives in Australia now. He wrote to me and said he was desperately trying to break into the music business and he couldn't believe that we were or rather I was doing so well. He was asking who to contact and what to do so I gave him some advice. I hope it helped. So that was quite nice really. Somebody I knew from my distant past obviously, contacting me".
With X-Factor back on TV did Rich think these type of shows damage the music business, after all it skips the apprenticeship stage that most bands and artists go through. "Possibly now, yes. I think the initial idea was great. It was really interesting as it had the nation gripped. They were looking for somebody as they used to years ago like on 'New Faces' and 'Opportunity Knocks'. It was kind of like a new old idea, it was really good but now I think history has shown that if you win you are not necessarily going to capture the nation to support you. There are so many people who have won it and disappeared almost over night so I'm not totally convinced that it's a great thing anymore." says Rich
But does the show try and make the music business too easy after all it's instant fame isn't it? "I think the massive point they miss with all those shows is that there are people on the show that can sing and they are fantastic singers. They are looking for a brilliant singer, but pop music isn't about brilliant singers. It's about characters and personas and you know being right characters and I think a lot of these people just haven't got that. You only get that through doing it the hard way by serving your apprenticeship and over coming obstacles along the way and I think that's what's missing. I think that's what they don't realise. And they are still looking for the perfect singer." he says analytically.
With the success of Mesh, has that enabled you and Mark to give up your day jobs? "Yes it has. In the year 2000 we got approached by Sony Colombia and they offered us a very nice sum of money to be honest to do two albums for them. It was something we had to think long and hard about. We have families, we had careers and jobs and we thought it's a chance of a lifetime. Most bands never get anywhere near that stage being offered that sort of money, so we decided to take it. We gave up our jobs and pursued it as best we could really. But the music business has changed so much now with downloads and the whole kind of record sales that it's not big business and we realise that and if we are going to carry on we need to almost fund it as well. So we decided that we'd keep the money and also do a part-time job and go back and keep our careers on hold. But if anything went wrong it was always there as something to fall back on so that's where we are at really. I'm in a position where I can if I want to, spend so many weeks in the studio and get paid or go and do my normal job and get paid for that as well" says Rich
So who influences Mark and Rich in a music sense? "It's quite funny. When we met we had very similar record collections and it was all from the kind of very early electronic stuff and the Mute stuff. Mute records had the 'Silicone Teens', 'Yazoo', 'Depeche Mode' and all those kind of early pioneers of electronic music. The other day when we played in Cologne and there was a band there called 'Portion Control'. They were one of those bands I was really into as a youngster and it was just so funny to be able to just walk up to them, say hello and have a chat. They were lower down the bill, they were the first artists on that day and we're kind of five or six bands above them now you know and that was quite an honour really. It was good music so it's all that kind of really early electronic bands, that were trying to make it something interesting. Although the 80's were being renowned for 'Kajagoogoo' and that kind of crap, I was more into the music that people hadn't really heard of, the dark underground electronic sound".
Not only do Mesh do their own work, they also do remixes and dance mixes for other bands and artists. "We've done that a few times." Rich says modestly never over stating their success. "I suppose it's a reasonable amount of money you can charge. I think people come to you because you are a named artist. I don't think it's that easy for anybody sat in their bedroom. There are thousands of people up and down the Country that are really good at it, but they won't be approached because they are not a name. I think people are after, for example 'Can we have a Mesh remix' and can we put the words 'Mesh remix' on it? So there is a means of making some money by doing that and it's also a means of getting to new people as well. If they like the remix or dance version we've done of their favourite artist track they are probably going to think who the hell are 'Mesh' and search out our music too. We are always happy to work with other bands and artists and remix their tracks." he says with feet firmly planted on the ground.
I had to ask Rich if there was an ultimate band or artiste he would love to do a remix for. "I'm a very big fan of a guy called Trent Resner, obviously Nine Inch Nails. I think he was very inspirational. I mean he took the whole electronic thing and turned it on it's head really by doing something really weird with it, making it distorted and almost present it in a very heavy rock way. It's produced in the same way as Madonna would do with her albums, it's all done in a studio with computers. It was kind of just a different take on it in it's day. It was really kind of inspirational for me and he still turns out some really good stuff now. Yeah ... I would love to have a go at something of his" says Rich.
Rich mentioned briefly about downloads and the way the music industry is changing in the way they are selling music to the public. I pushed him a little further on the subject. Are downloads killing music? "I'm really on the fence about this ... Possibly. I don't think it is killing music it is changing music" he says thoughtfully. "It is the way youngsters perceive music today. It is different to how I used to perceive it. You used to save up your money and rush out and buy the new single by your favourite artist the day it came out. You would have a record collection and the whole thing of having record sleeves and CD covers. I used to read the thing from cover to cover. Who produced it, the musicians, lyrics and this, that and the other. That was the whole thing for me. You know what I mean and that's what I really enjoyed about buying music. Where as I think kids today are so used to getting it for free, they wouldn't even think that they are doing anything wrong which is fair enough because they don't know any different. I think it's almost devalued music in a way which is a shame really because I think you know life without music would be a very sad place. As much as I hate to say it the music industry is a business. For artists to make high quality records there has to be some money input from somewhere, be it a record company, publishing company and these people can only get their money by selling the music so it's almost catch 22 situation. You can't just keep downloading for free or borrowing it off your mate and burning a copy of your favourite band's latest CD release. Otherwise music will just disappear and it will disappear and that would be very sad indeed".
Robbie Williams and members of Depeche Mode are great fans of Mesh. The band also went on tour with Gary Newman a few years ago and with Rich being a fan of his music he saw Gary Newman in Bristol. Had a great time but he got some unexpected attention. "Gary was really good but during the concert I got spotted a few times by the Numan fans which was very nice. I had three or four people ask for autographs and photographs whilst I was actually there so I was quite flattered really" being a little humble with his experience.
So what about the future for Mesh. What can we expect? "We have the DVD being released in November, which seems to have taken absolutely forever to put together. It shouldn't have taken this long but we've had issues with record companies, publishers due to the fact that we've had old songs and new songs on this DVD but we've managed to get through that. Of course we are doing three shows in November as well, Bristol, Manchester and London which we are really looking forward to. And Mark and I are feeling quite inspired to start working on a new album. We've got several tracks already written in very basic form but we're just about ready to start work on it and get back into the recording studio" says Rich
And with that Rich is pleased he got through the interview quite successfully. I have to say he made it so easy to interview him. He is proud of his achievements but doesn't shout it from the roof tops. There are no strops or I won't answer that question and he is quite relaxed and happy with his lot. Of course he would love to see Mesh become far bigger in the UK than they already are and both he and Mark have ambitions to tour the USA. All I can say is good luck to them. They deserve success where ever they go. I'm now off to raid my Mesh CD collection again to be reminded just how good they are!.
Mesh Links:
Official Web Site: http://www.mesh.co.uk/
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/meshwecollide
Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill
Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.
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