Interview with Mesh.

"Success and fame for the Bristol duo continues to shine bright for Mesh"

"Mesh" formed in Bristol at the end of 1991 by Richard (Rich) Silverthorn, Mark Hockings and Neil Taylor, although the band name wasn't born until 1992. All three were already involved in the Bristol music scene in one form or another playing venues such as "The Bristol Bridge Inn" and they seemed destined to work together with paths continually crossing.

Their first recording was a song called "Waste Of Time". Rich already had a piece of music written which he gave to Mark to work on the lyrics and that was the start of 'Mesh'. The release of this demo created a buzz on the music scene. After that they continued to record, working on ideas and the direction they wanted to take the band. One thing they did know was that they wanted to produce their own style, sound and keep control of it. This led to Rich building his own recording studio called "Urban Studios" so the band could keep control of the creative and artistic side of their work.

In the UK they have an underground cult status with their music being played at club nights and gigs selling out to fans. In their home city they have played "The Watershed", "The Mauritania" and "The Bierkeller". The commercial adulation that most manufactured bands seem to crave is something "Mesh" just take in their stride and their fans are very important to the band members. In Europe they are massive with tours, record sales and continual requests to headline festivals.

They have released five studio albums - "Fragile" (1994), "In This Place Forever" (1996), "The Point At Which This Falls Apart" (1999), "Who Watches Over Me?" (2002), "We Collide" (2006), plus "Fragmente" (1998 and 2002) the latter a double compilation best of remixes and alternative versions of songs previously released - and countless singles including "Crash", "Friends Like These", "Leave You Nothing", "Waves", "Not Prepared" and "It Scares Me".

In September 2006 Neil Taylor decided to leave the band. It was something he had been thinking about doing for sometime. There was no split, no animosity, in fact it was all very amicable. Neil wanted to pursue other projects outside of music and all three remain friends with Neil still following the career path of "Mesh".

In between their hectic schedule I caught up with Rich Silverthorne for an interview at 'Urban Studios' and was also shown their latest DVD release "The World's A Big Place", live in concert and I have to say it is very impressive indeed!

Rich began describing the type of music Mesh produce. "It's kind of electronic based music. It's all done using computers and samplers but also there is the live aspect of it with guitars and drums but primarily it's a kind of programmed music with a kind of rocky edge to it. If you took a big pot and threw in 'Garbage', 'The Prodigy', 'Nine Inch Nails', 'Depeche Mode' and you gave it a good stir you'd probably get somewhere close to what we do really".

The band's first release was "Waste Of Time", a song written by Rich and Mark, but was it hard to get the attention they needed in the beginning? "It was really difficult. It's the same with any band. Every band has a problem of getting noticed." says Rich. "You do these demos and then you send them out to the record company's and initially it was nothing really special. And then we done some more recording and started honing in our recording techniques and got better and better at it. Then almost overnight we got a lot of interest from all the major record company's in this Country. It was almost overwhelming really. This was where it was all going to take off." he says.

"But the A&R people were almost trying to change our sound and asking 'can you do it to make it sound a bit more like this' or 'can you move the chords of this track and put it somewhere else'. We'd go back in the studio and do this for them and send them a tape and it was like 'oh that A&R guy has left'. We got so cheesed off with the whole thing, how the industry works." Says Rich on the ever changing UK music industry.

"We ended up having a demo in a magazine called 'Future Music' and they picked up on us. They asked us would we be prepared to present a track for them for their very first cover mounted magazine with a CD on it. Back then that was something really special. Nobody was giving away CD's like they do now-a-days. So we did that and on the back of that we had so many people contact us up and down the Country saying they really loved our track, are we planning to do anything, put an album out and on the back of that I think it gave us that push. We began thinking we could possibly do this on our own without the help of a record label or anything like that so we done a pressing of about 500 copies of our demo album. We distributed it and sold it and it went really really well. We were overwhelmed that we'd sold that many. You start off by selling like half a dozen demo tapes and then all of a sudden we sold 500 CD's really quickly. After that we got picked up by a record label in Sweden and then Germany and it just got bigger and bigger from there on really". And a rare smile is seen on Rich's face.

After their experience with the British record companies the band decided they wanted to keep their own sound and identity rather than a record company take control. "With all our record companies up until now they've always left us alone to do exactly what we wanted. We didn't want anybody coming in saying you need to do this you need to do that. It was a case of just getting on with it and the record companies were prepared to get the album out in it's finished state and that's still how we work today. We control everything here, write the songs, do the production and do the recording ourselves. We basically give it to our record label when we're finished" he says with great satisfaction.

When Mesh first started out they were a trio. Today they are duo and I wondered what roles each member took on in the band. "Initially we were all into keyboards and the electronic thing. Sampling, programming and when I first met Mark he was doing that job in another band. He did one track, he sung on one track and I thought this guy has got a really good voice. I approached Mark and said would you be interested in doing some other work and that's where the kind of Mesh thing started. So we all were programmers and we were all into keyboards but Mark took the role of being the singer. As time went on I think we all kind of found our own little niche in the band and what to do. So Neil was more the business side because that obviously took off so much with record companies, publishers and promotion so he took on that role. Mark carried on being the singer/songwriter and then I was the kind of the producer, programmer doing most of the studio work" explained Rich.

Musically though did Mesh use real instruments when recording and playing live? "Yes we do. Initially we were very electronic and it was all programmed. As time went on we wanted to add more live instruments into the show because it just looked kind of static. It wasn't exciting and most electronic bands, nine times out of ten they are miming to something. It's because that's the way the music is, you've got to programme it or you are either stood there playing to a backing track or to some kind of sequencer. So we took the bold step and said we need a drummer to take on the drumming parts of the songs and all the guitar parts we said we'd do and started playing live. A lot of the keyboards are played live now."

So what about the song writing? Is it shared between you and Mark I ask. "It can go one of two ways really. Mark, he often writes with acoustic guitar. He writes a song in very basic form, so it comes out almost like a folk song. It's just literally acoustic and him singing. Or I will programme a piece of music in song form so it would be verse, chorus, verse, chorus just roughly and give it to Mark. He would come back with some lyrics over the top and an idea for a melody and then in the studio we strip it right back down and start again, so you know where you are going with it, you have an idea, so that's how we do it really." Rich makes it sound so straight forward.

But does he ever write song lyrics himself? "No I don't but I can tell you what Mark writes about. He takes a lot from life and experiences he's had. I know on the last album it was a lot of things he saw on television and just things in general that kind of shock you or make you sit down and really think about things. I think that's where he gets most of his inspiration from. A lot of his songs sound very kind of lovey dovey, ummm ... no not lovey dovey that's the wrong word, kind of almost like love songs. If you actually listen to the lyrics and really get into them most of them are nothing like what you imagined them to be. He never really gives away what the song is all about even though I know. People interpret it in different ways and I think that is really good. All the bands I used to like, I used to listen to it and get really drawn into the song and think what the hell's all that about? Or it would have some kind of meaning to you where the chances are it didn't mean anything like that to the songwriter. So usually he doesn't give much stuff away about what the songs are about really." Rich says cryptically.

Mesh have great success in Europe but in the UK their music seems to have been ignored by the mainstream market, why? "We have got a very loyal fan base in the UK. We can play shows in London and 700 - 800 people or more will turn up at a venue we are playing. We have done quite a few shows up and down the Country and we always get a crowd but whether it is a big crowd or not it's difficult to say. Some venues we sell out but I think we concentrated on Europe because it's a really healthy scene over there. The music scene is so professional. The people there are prepared to put money into it and make it a success whereas the UK is very ....... well you are either nothing or you are massive. There isn't any halfway ground anymore. It's changed to what it used to be. Places like Germany, Scandinavia, most of Europe. In fact we've been to places such as Russia and the response is really big crowds where ever we go". says Rich

The band have also travelled to the USA and plan to go back. "We did have an album promoted over there and we have done a few shows too. In fact we flew out just before the Twin Towers disaster and flew out to Chicago and ended with a show in New York which was sold out. We were absolutely gobsmacked. We had never been to New York before and we sold out this club and that was really cool. Then we went down to Orlando and we also played in Texas. So we have been there but it has never been an extensive tour or proper tour, it's only been one off shows or a several shows at a time. It's one of those things we'd really like to explore and give it a go because I think you haven't got to make it massive in America to make a lot of money and become quite successful. It's one of those things on our list to try really".

The guys seem to go out doing concerts on a regular basis but how do they transfer what we hear on CD to the stage? "When we've written a song we always try and interpret it in a slightly different way live just to try and make it interesting for people. We strip everything down and change sounds and possibly try to speed things up to give that dancey feel to it or extend tracks to make them more interesting. That's how we do it. We'll replace some of the programmed sections with real instruments and I think it gives a whole different feet really." Rich explains

So given the choice between their own tours or headlining festivals which do Mark and Rich prefer doing? "I think we love doing our own tours. When you do your own tours you know that all the people that are there have come to see you and it's a great atmosphere. It's like our whole family going on the road and going to visit all these people. It's fantastic. Saying that, the whole festival thing is good because you get to meet new people and get to play your music to people who have most probably never heard of you or seen you, so it's kind of 50/50 but I think if I had to be pushed I would say our own tours are better."

Mesh recently did a couple festivals in France and Germany which showed how versatile they can be on stage. I just couldn't resist asking how it all went. "You know how it went!" says Rich laughing. "France was quite good. We've not played there often to be honest with you so that was probably a thousand people I guess in a club. That was quite good to go back and do something different. It's quite challenging with Countries you haven't played that much in. And then we had an overnight stint straight to Cologne. We were on the main stage and there was probably about 8,000 people maybe more. It was fantastic, it was one of the better shows. It was rather memorable because our instruments crashed while we were on stage. Both mine and Jeff's keyboards broke down and all the sequencing broke and stopped The only thing that was left was our drummer and us singing. But it was really good because the whole crowd joined in and we were getting everybody going. We did one number literally all the way through accapella but it made the whole thing so memorable. It was really good" he says confidently.

During the interview Rich is showing me the band's new live in concert DVD due for release the end of November and there are only four people on the stage. "Yes. That's all we need" says Rich laughing. "There is some sequencing. There are noises coming out of keyboards that are programmed and then we have a live drummer who has a hell of a job keeping up with us because, obviously in that situation he has to play with the programmed music whereas in a normal band situation the drummer would be the time keeper but in our situation it's different. And then there are two keyboard players, myself and a guy called Jeff and Mark singing, so there is quite a lot going on really."

And with Mark and Rich touring so much how many people does it really involve to get the Mesh show on the road? "There's about ten people behind the scenes that make everything work. We have a very strong family bond crew. We have a sound man, a lighting man, keyboard technicians, three or four roadies, a girl who does our merchandising and controls that kind of thing. We also have a tour manager, a bus driver, so it's really good. What you see on stage is four guys jumping up and down doing their bit but the main body of work is done all through the day by these other guys who work really really hard" says Rich giving credit to the behind scenes team.

From my sister Jo I keep hearing how good the Mesh shows are and I asked how much artistic and creative input he and Mark gave to their live performances. "I'd say 99%. As a band we've always been control freaks which in some ways can be a very negative. But we've never liked to let anything go. Right from the start we always used to do the recording, the writing, the production. Neil used to do all the art work, all the CD covers, the photography. We felt very proud, every time we put an album out as it was us. Nobody else involved. It wasn't some technical guy doing all the music for us. We've always felt like we need to control this, we like putting out what is essentially 99% us. In a live show we do a big video production and that's been done by us as well. So we spend a bit of time capturing images on video, editing it and making these whole shows in the background. So yeah, basically it's all us really." he says

With live concert footage being screened in the background whilst I was doing this interview I noticed some up close shots and wondered how Rich felt having a camera in his face all the time. "It was quite good actually. It was very eye opening I guess and it was the last show of the tour." he says "We had six guys there with high quality professional cameras capturing everything we were doing. It was slightly intimidating in the sense that you've got somebody almost up your nostrils with a camera and watching what you are doing with your hands. Towards the end it was quite good, you knew they were there and you knew what to expect from them and it was alright. I think, you know, they've captured it quite well. You'll get to see it all when the DVD comes out". Rich says enthusiastically.

But how does filming a live concert differ from making a video for the latest single release? "It's completely different really. I've never felt really comfortable doing videos because we're not actors." And Rich starts laughing. "I mean it's one of those things where you crack up laughing because you feel so embarrassed and almost like a fish out of water when you are asked to do certain roles and certain things in videos. Whereas the live thing I felt reasonably comfortable because it's what we do. We knew what we were doing and it's just somebody capturing that. Making videos is a completely different thing" and he continues laughing because he does find that an uncomfortable experience.

Rich and Mark are so proud of originating from Bristol. They still live in the city and have never been tempted to move away. "I am very patriotic as a person and very proud of the fact that we are from Bristol. In most interviews we do all over the world, it's something that comes up and it's something I like to put in. So when they say where do you come from I don't say the UK I always say we come from Bristol in the UK. We are quite proud of it regardless of whether people know us in Bristol. We continue to do shows and we did a show last year at the Bristol Bierkeller and we are back there again in November and also playing Manchester and London. We are looking forward to playing Bristol because it's our home and we'll be playing in front of family and friends." Another rare smile appears on his face.

Being a Bristol lad I wondered if any of his school mates remembered him from school and what they would say about his chosen career. "I don't know really. They probably wouldn't think much of it because they might not know who we are. However I did have someone contact me through Friends Reunited who I used to go to school with. He lives in Australia now. He wrote to me and said he was desperately trying to break into the music business and he couldn't believe that we were or rather I was doing so well. He was asking who to contact and what to do so I gave him some advice. I hope it helped. So that was quite nice really. Somebody I knew from my distant past obviously, contacting me".

With X-Factor back on TV did Rich think these type of shows damage the music business, after all it skips the apprenticeship stage that most bands and artists go through. "Possibly now, yes. I think the initial idea was great. It was really interesting as it had the nation gripped. They were looking for somebody as they used to years ago like on 'New Faces' and 'Opportunity Knocks'. It was kind of like a new old idea, it was really good but now I think history has shown that if you win you are not necessarily going to capture the nation to support you. There are so many people who have won it and disappeared almost over night so I'm not totally convinced that it's a great thing anymore." says Rich

But does the show try and make the music business too easy after all it's instant fame isn't it? "I think the massive point they miss with all those shows is that there are people on the show that can sing and they are fantastic singers. They are looking for a brilliant singer, but pop music isn't about brilliant singers. It's about characters and personas and you know being right characters and I think a lot of these people just haven't got that. You only get that through doing it the hard way by serving your apprenticeship and over coming obstacles along the way and I think that's what's missing. I think that's what they don't realise. And they are still looking for the perfect singer." he says analytically.

With the success of Mesh, has that enabled you and Mark to give up your day jobs? "Yes it has. In the year 2000 we got approached by Sony Colombia and they offered us a very nice sum of money to be honest to do two albums for them. It was something we had to think long and hard about. We have families, we had careers and jobs and we thought it's a chance of a lifetime. Most bands never get anywhere near that stage being offered that sort of money, so we decided to take it. We gave up our jobs and pursued it as best we could really. But the music business has changed so much now with downloads and the whole kind of record sales that it's not big business and we realise that and if we are going to carry on we need to almost fund it as well. So we decided that we'd keep the money and also do a part-time job and go back and keep our careers on hold. But if anything went wrong it was always there as something to fall back on so that's where we are at really. I'm in a position where I can if I want to, spend so many weeks in the studio and get paid or go and do my normal job and get paid for that as well" says Rich

So who influences Mark and Rich in a music sense? "It's quite funny. When we met we had very similar record collections and it was all from the kind of very early electronic stuff and the Mute stuff. Mute records had the 'Silicone Teens', 'Yazoo', 'Depeche Mode' and all those kind of early pioneers of electronic music. The other day when we played in Cologne and there was a band there called 'Portion Control'. They were one of those bands I was really into as a youngster and it was just so funny to be able to just walk up to them, say hello and have a chat. They were lower down the bill, they were the first artists on that day and we're kind of five or six bands above them now you know and that was quite an honour really. It was good music so it's all that kind of really early electronic bands, that were trying to make it something interesting. Although the 80's were being renowned for 'Kajagoogoo' and that kind of crap, I was more into the music that people hadn't really heard of, the dark underground electronic sound".

Not only do Mesh do their own work, they also do remixes and dance mixes for other bands and artists. "We've done that a few times." Rich says modestly never over stating their success. "I suppose it's a reasonable amount of money you can charge. I think people come to you because you are a named artist. I don't think it's that easy for anybody sat in their bedroom. There are thousands of people up and down the Country that are really good at it, but they won't be approached because they are not a name. I think people are after, for example 'Can we have a Mesh remix' and can we put the words 'Mesh remix' on it? So there is a means of making some money by doing that and it's also a means of getting to new people as well. If they like the remix or dance version we've done of their favourite artist track they are probably going to think who the hell are 'Mesh' and search out our music too. We are always happy to work with other bands and artists and remix their tracks." he says with feet firmly planted on the ground.

I had to ask Rich if there was an ultimate band or artiste he would love to do a remix for. "I'm a very big fan of a guy called Trent Resner, obviously Nine Inch Nails. I think he was very inspirational. I mean he took the whole electronic thing and turned it on it's head really by doing something really weird with it, making it distorted and almost present it in a very heavy rock way. It's produced in the same way as Madonna would do with her albums, it's all done in a studio with computers. It was kind of just a different take on it in it's day. It was really kind of inspirational for me and he still turns out some really good stuff now. Yeah ... I would love to have a go at something of his" says Rich.

Rich mentioned briefly about downloads and the way the music industry is changing in the way they are selling music to the public. I pushed him a little further on the subject. Are downloads killing music? "I'm really on the fence about this ... Possibly. I don't think it is killing music it is changing music" he says thoughtfully. "It is the way youngsters perceive music today. It is different to how I used to perceive it. You used to save up your money and rush out and buy the new single by your favourite artist the day it came out. You would have a record collection and the whole thing of having record sleeves and CD covers. I used to read the thing from cover to cover. Who produced it, the musicians, lyrics and this, that and the other. That was the whole thing for me. You know what I mean and that's what I really enjoyed about buying music. Where as I think kids today are so used to getting it for free, they wouldn't even think that they are doing anything wrong which is fair enough because they don't know any different. I think it's almost devalued music in a way which is a shame really because I think you know life without music would be a very sad place. As much as I hate to say it the music industry is a business. For artists to make high quality records there has to be some money input from somewhere, be it a record company, publishing company and these people can only get their money by selling the music so it's almost catch 22 situation. You can't just keep downloading for free or borrowing it off your mate and burning a copy of your favourite band's latest CD release. Otherwise music will just disappear and it will disappear and that would be very sad indeed".

Robbie Williams and members of Depeche Mode are great fans of Mesh. The band also went on tour with Gary Newman a few years ago and with Rich being a fan of his music he saw Gary Newman in Bristol. Had a great time but he got some unexpected attention. "Gary was really good but during the concert I got spotted a few times by the Numan fans which was very nice. I had three or four people ask for autographs and photographs whilst I was actually there so I was quite flattered really" being a little humble with his experience.

So what about the future for Mesh. What can we expect? "We have the DVD being released in November, which seems to have taken absolutely forever to put together. It shouldn't have taken this long but we've had issues with record companies, publishers due to the fact that we've had old songs and new songs on this DVD but we've managed to get through that. Of course we are doing three shows in November as well, Bristol, Manchester and London which we are really looking forward to. And Mark and I are feeling quite inspired to start working on a new album. We've got several tracks already written in very basic form but we're just about ready to start work on it and get back into the recording studio" says Rich

And with that Rich is pleased he got through the interview quite successfully. I have to say he made it so easy to interview him. He is proud of his achievements but doesn't shout it from the roof tops. There are no strops or I won't answer that question and he is quite relaxed and happy with his lot. Of course he would love to see Mesh become far bigger in the UK than they already are and both he and Mark have ambitions to tour the USA. All I can say is good luck to them. They deserve success where ever they go. I'm now off to raid my Mesh CD collection again to be reminded just how good they are!.

Mesh Links:

Official Web Site: http://www.mesh.co.uk/
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/meshwecollide

Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill

Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.

In The Studio. - Rich Silverthorne of Mesh

"In the studio with Rich Silverthorne"

Bristol band "Mesh" have always been determined to keep creative and artistic control with their own material. And the best way to achieve this was to build their own recording studio from scratch where they could use it any time of the day or night, have no restrictions on booking time and most of all it was built to their customised needs. In fact the man behind it all is Rich Silverthorne and he built it with great thought and creativity in mind to produce the "Mesh" sound and it has a great selection of equipment.

Urban Studios as it is called - and Rich cannot recall why it was named that, - is based in Bristol. What you find is one big room packed with, plugs, buttons, switches, musical instruments and more plus a small sound proof recording booth where all the vocals are done at one end of the studio. I decided to do an interview with Rich about the subject because he does a lot of the production for "Mesh". And in recent years a number of artists have emerged having set up small home recording studio's in their bedroom. So who better to get advice from?

What you have to picture is that Rich and I are sat in the centre of the room on swivel chairs so we start our little tour of the studio from the left and work our way round in a circle. And to make it easier to read I have left the interview as a question and answer session.

KC: Rich, what we have in front of us is two separate mixing desks, why?
RS: "Well, it looks like two separate mixing desks but it is in fact one main mixing desk and what they call an extension of the mixing desk. It just gives you more channels. We started off with a 24 channel desk and soon ran out of input so we added another 24 channels so we now have a 48 input analogue desk."

KC: So how do you keep track of all of these (tracks) channels because I note you have writing all over it?
RS: "It's a bit primitive I know, but that is what we do. We just write what each channel contains so we know what it is and where to find it when needed. It's just a means of keeping track where everything is when we want to add various sounds to the mix."

KC: How do you go about using the mixing desk?
RS: "Now this is going to sound really really basic but each slider controls your volume and then you've got your kind of pan which is either sending the signal to the left side, or the right side and then you have a whole EQ section - that stands for equalization, - which gives you the adjustments of frequencies, starting at the top end and then working your way back down to the base end. So it's pulling out frequencies, tweaking frequencies, either adding or subtracting to create the whole mix, to make certain sounds sit in the mix. Send them to the back, to the front or to the listener. And then we have a section at the top which is all your effects. All it does is send the dry signal that is coming into the different signal processors, like reverbs or delays and things like that so that gives you forty-eight channels of that."

KC: Now to my left there is a whole series of buttons, what do they do?
RS: "That's a kind of sub mixer section. You can also send it out to tape recorders and bring it back in. And there are also different buttons on our desk so that you can use different sets of speakers for monitoring. It's very good to have a decent set of monitors in the studio so you can hear it in it's worst state if you like. And then we've also got a section where you can click it over to a hi-fi set of speakers so you can hear what your average listener would be listening to. It's a case of just fishing out frequencies. Certain things may be too basey so you can take it out by listening to it on listening devices really."

KC: Your mixing desk is a Mackie 24 8. How good is that make?
RS: "They are by no means the top end desk but they're not bad. They are like a semi-professional set up. There are other desks available such as Nieve Desks which cost absolutely thousands and thousands of pounds, but we found for what we want in our studio this is fine. We get really good results out of it and the way things are going at the moment, everything is becoming software based. With many artists now their music doesn't leave the computer, it's all done in software. You can record onto computer, you can add on all the instruments internally on a computer. Where as we have always like the idea of getting it back out onto an analogue desk and mixing it the old traditional way to give it some warmth and depth That's how we do it."

KC: You mention the computer and in front of you is your computer. What role does it play in recording your music?
RS: "You could say it's the engine of the whole studio. It does the sequencing which is obviously recording all the notes that you put in from the keyboard and you can do all the editing on it. There are editing sections and you build the song up with different programmes. There are loads of different ones available on the market but there is one programme called Q-Base so you build the song up and that and then once you've got that you can build up and record as a separate track. So you can build on the vocals or whatever or any analogue instruments or guitars or drums etc into the computer. And this is just how we do it, we build the song up bit by bit and like I said we just reach things back out of the computer onto the desk for it's final recording or mixing."

KC: If you swing round to your right you have a keyboard in front of you. It's a Korg.
RS: "Indeed it is. This is a master keyboard we use, obviously playing everything in. It's also like a work station stroke sampler but it's just a very very good quality Korg keyboard. It's got very real sounds in it like string sections and a lot of other real sounding instruments and that's already plugged into the computer desk."

KC: And right behind you is this, well I can't describe it. It's full of buttons and switches.
RS: "I'll tell you roughly what it is. We have a thing at the top which we call a midi merger. All the keyboards use them like a control wire that goes between each keyboard which is called midi so all the keyboards we have are connected up there. It means I can play every keyboard in this studio from this one keyboard here in front of me. Then we have the next thing down that is like a valve processor which we use for vocals. It is just a like a compressor that squashes and controls the vocals so that you can shout or sing quietly and it maintains it's level and controls everything. And then we have limiters and gates. These cut out noise or again would limit a sound so it wouldn't go too loud or too quiet. We also have a graphic equalizer which doesn't really get used that much obviously because we have a desk that does a better job. Then these are basically rack versions of all the keyboards. You can either have a keyboard with a keyboard on it or can have the whole kind of engine or the main part of a keyboard without the keyboard so I can play these racked instruments from one keyboard. So that's that. We have several of those and then we get to a large section of compressors, again you know this is for controlling, literally controlling the volume of things."
KC: So if we swing round further to our right we have seven keyboards. How on earth can you play them all in one go?
RS: "Well you use the aid of the computer that plays the sections for you. But keyboards for me, well it's like any guitarist. To the outsider we are asked 'well why do you so many' and the reason why we have so many is because they have different characteristics, they all produce sounds in different ways. We have a Roland SH101 which is a very old analogue keyboard and it gets you that kind of really squelchy early electronic kind of noises and is very kind of manipulative. You can make some really cool noises with that."

KC: What about the Nord lead 2?
RS: "Well that is a newish keyboard and what it does is emulate what these keyboards used to do years ago. It's a digital version of an analogue keyboard but it also has a kind of strange realistic character of its own really. It's just quite a punchy sound and it's also got very cutting filters on it. It can really stand out in a track. When I hear one I can tell it's a Nord Lead."

KC: And then you've also got the E-Max 2.
RS: "Now this is a very early 80's sampler. And basically everyone knows what a sampler is these days. It can record real instruments or any real noise straight into it. You can play it across the length of the keyboard for controlling pitch so you can take a human voice and go up the keyboard with it and down the keyboard. You can also manipulate it, change sounds and we use it a lot for things like drums and guitars, just to mess them up really. To take the nice clean sound and just completely make them sound ...umm I don't know ..... make them sound really dirty and scratchy because it's just old technology, but it's something we use a lot. I like the kind of characteristic it gives."

KC: Below all that you have a mini disc player and other items.
RS: "Again, more analogue stuff and a very very good keyboard version called a Roland JV 10 80. Again it gives some very warm string sounds, very real sounding instruments such as a saxophone sound or a trumpet sound. You would go to some instrument like this and get that type of sound whereas the analogue stuff, the older stuff, it's just unique sounds, you know keyboard type sounds rather than real instruments. And then we have another sampler and some more analogue gear really. So it's different type's of keyboard really that we have in this area"

KC. What I have spotted is a guitar in the corner, looking very lonely on it's own.
RS: "Yes. I have several guitars and that one's strat copy. But we do use guitars quite a lot really. Again we just record them into a computer and cut them up and mess the sound about a bit. I am not a big fan of normal guitar chords or using a guitar in a traditional way. I think coming from an electronic background, I like to mix sounds up. You'd most probably not recognise it as a guitar when you hear the finished result, but it's a good instrument for adding the realism and grittiness to tracks."

KC: And then we have the recording booth.
RS: "Yes we have!. It's a small room I should say with a microphone in it and its acoustically sound. Keeps the noise down. We've got the usual acoustic foam in there to create a dead space and that's where all our vocals are done."

KC: And then back we are back to the beginning. What do we have under the mixing desk?
RS: "That's all the effects I was saying about earlier. That would be all the delays, your reverbs and things like that. There is also a Dat machine that we still use, which again is quiet old technology now, but that's what we use to master all our finished productions onto. And then we also have another kind of compressor, limiter that controls the whole thing and goes over the whole desk"

KC: Rich, you are the Chief Engineer (he starts laughing) yes the Chief Engineer, the Chief Studio artist aren't you?
RS: "Ummmm .............. yes. Kind of. I guess. I do a lot of the production work on Mesh's albums. I am not saying I do all of it. Mark also does some in the studio too but I think I do the majority of it now a days."

KC: How easy or difficult is it to use this studio?
RS: "I would imagine for an outsider it would be really difficult because I've built it up from scratch, I've added to it and added to it and it's almost like it's my baby. I know how everything works, how everything is routed and where every cable goes, so you know I find it was almost purpose built for us, the band as a kind of standard studio. For a normal band to come in, it is not exactly ideal but it more than suits our purpose."

KC: Did you learn about all of this from scratch yourself or did you go to college?
RS: "No college. I learnt it all from scratch. I bought a Sequential Pro 1 keyboard when I first left school. It's a very old analogue keyboard. Something 'Yazoo' did all their albums on, and I learnt from there. I just sat there fiddling around with it. You learn what each button does, each knob does and you just add to it and add to it and add to it and here we are now."

KC: What advice would you give to somebody who is just starting out and hoping to set up their own little studio themselves?
RS: "I think the first thing is don't be taken in by the whole money side of things. You can buy some really good stuff now a days with a computer and some computer programmes. There is a programme called 'Reason' that we use a lot in the studio and it's just fantastic. It's so flexible and what you can do with it is just amazing really. So like I said get something like that and fiddle around with it and see if you have some kind of aptitude for doing this before you start spending money on the real thing. And don't spend too much money on it really, like I did!" (And Rich starts laughing)

KC: You also do remixes for other bands so are available for hire?
RS: "Yes. For remix work or session work or production stuff. I don't think we are in a position where I think that we can record full bands in the studio and to be honest I don't think I would want to at the moment. But for remixes and dance mixes yes, we'll do that, it's not a problem."

To contact Rich Silverthorne and Mark Hockings about production, remixes and dance mixes it is best to e-mail them or contact through their web site: www.mesh.co.uk

Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill

Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.

Modesty Blaise Interview

"Modesty Blaise - The Least Hard Working Band In Show Business?"

One of the longest friendships anyone can have is an old school friend and I have one or two friends who have stuck with me through life. However one of the longest friendships is with Jonathan Collins, lead singer with Bristol pop group "Modesty Blaise".

My first memory of him was in the school playground where he was clowning about with Steven Perks and a camera. I really don't know why that has stuck in my mind and never will but we were in Infants School.

Jonathan had this fascination with long hair and in particular my pony tail! He sat at the desk behind me and gave it a tug every now and again. When we lined up for assembly he was there standing behind me. Gave my pony tail a tug and would say "Ding ding fares please. Off we go!" as we began walking down the corridor to assembly. We also sang in the school choir, both of us soloists. Junior School, Senior School, Saturday jobs and my Dad determined to wind up Jon at every opportunity when he went into the Co-op on a Saturday. And despite going off to do our own things in life we still remained friends. Some friendships are meant to be and those friendships are valued for life.

And yet this old school friend is famous, in fact successful in Europe with his band "Modesty Blaise". Germany, Spain, Scandinavia and everywhere else, but the UK is a different matter. It's not for want of trying, it's just the UK music industry wants to mould or manufacture bands/artists and they have little time for natural raw talent to develop. It's as if music is on a conveyor belt churning out the next fashion trend and not paying attention to those out there giving their all. The music industry in Europe has far more flexibility hence the reason why so many British bands find fame there rather than here.

Today he is known as Johnny Collins, lead singer, guitarist, and songwriter with "Modesty Blaise". He is joined by David W. Brown who plays base guitar, Gregory Jones on guitars and Mark Bradley on drums. With several single releases, three album releases - "Modern Guitars with Amplification", "A Beginners Guide to Modesty Blaise" and "Melancholia" - and concerts booked every year for the band, I may know his music history but you don't and I wanted Johnny to tell it as it is in his own words.

As we were both in the School Choir did that have any influence on his music career? "Absolutely!" says Johnny "I would say School choirs and music lessons and all of those things were very important. And I need to make a point about the current education system. Music needs to be more firmly integrated into the School curriculum so it's not just something that is added on, it is something that is central." he says with his parent hat on. "Actually being in School choirs and Church choir as well, even though there was no God, they teach an awful lot about harmonies, although these days everybody seems to do hip hop songs so you don't learn about harmonies."

We both had music lessons with different teachers. I for one play the piano and just cannot sight read music. In fact I am terrible at it but what was Johnny like with his piano lessons at the time? "I had piano lessons for years and I was absolutely rubbish! I now discover that was actually quite useful because I now know how chords relate to other chords but I'm still useless. I can play stuff with the right hand, I can play stuff with the left hand but I can't play the two together which luckily together with today's recording technology is no disadvantage." A fair point made by him.

"I also played the violin. And if my piano playing was bad then my violin playing was absolutely appalling until I chopped the top of my finger off and then I had a fantastic excuse for giving up the violin but frankly it had given up on me anyway" Johnny says laughing

So when did he start playing the guitar because it wasn't at School and did it improve his musical ability? "I was at college and I was going to form a band, by which point I knew I couldn't play any instruments. I'd played the piano and violin for years and another thing about me is that I have no idea when to give up. This doesn't apply to musical stuff, it's everything in general. So when I came to form a band the idea was that I was going to be a singer in a band and I wasn't going to play any instrument, but I was a bit concerned about feeling incredibly exposed on the stage so I thought I'd get a guitar, a huge great semi-acoustic essentially to hide behind. I wasn't even going to plug it in! But when I did plug it in and turn it up I realised it actually plays itself, it's remarkably easy." he says proudly.

The idea of forming a band whilst at College led to another strong friendship bond with David W. Brown who is bass guitarist with "Modesty Blaise" and again Johnny made a lasting impression. "We were at the same college, Swansea, and on the same course but curiously we had no common lectures at all so I managed to go two years without meeting him at all which is amazing! And then when it was put about that I was putting a band together. Various people who did know him knew that he wanted to be in a band and so a meeting between the two of us was engineered, whereby he came round to my flat."

"I really didn't know who he was but he knew who I was and he tells a story about me whereby there were two incidents that made him decide to join a band with me. Firstly, he claims he met me at a party of a mutual friend which was in a three story house with the bottom storey as the kitchen, the middle storey was the living room upon which there were a lot of people smoking illegal substances, being off their faces and sort of listening to Gong or various other rubbish like that. Dave had no interest in that and he wandered up to the third storey where he found me." says Johnny laughing. "I don't recall this, but he found me jumping up and down on someone's bed to a distorting cassette player playing 'Velvet Underground'. He came into the room and I carried on jumping up and down, he was there for five minutes, he went away and I was still jumping up and down! That's the first story he tells of how we met. I have no reason to disbelieve him."

"The second one was when he came round to my flat to decide whether he was going to join the band or not. It was 1986 or something like that. At the time of Jesus and Mary Chain had released their first single 'Upside Down' and I had a poster from the 'Mary Chain's' Upside Down on my wall and it was hung upside down at which point Dave decided he was going to join the band."

The name of Johnny's first band was 'Boats Not Ships' and the explanation of how that came about is just as bizarre. "The idea behind it was things that are small rather than things that were big. It wasn't much of an idea, a philosophy as such. It was just one of those things from the British comedies of the 40's and 50's. It's like 'I say sir I like your boat' ' That's not a boat it's a ship' grumble grumble. I saw it in a film recently and laughed much to the dismay of other people." he explained.

The band's first demo back in the day's when everything was stuck on audio cassette was called "Give Elvis The Crumbs" and it contained three songs. "One Of These Fine Days", "Shift The Sky" and "Caprice" and I still have it in my music collection. What I do remember is that at the end of the tape there is a clip of Elvis Presley talking and I did wonder why call it "Give Elvis The Crumbs" and add the man himself at the end of the tape.

"There was a stray dog and as people in colleges tend to live in groups, we had a stray dog named Elvis. It just came at the end of one of those conversations. 'What are we going to feed Elvis?' 'Oh I don't know give Elvis the crumbs'. And then we found some tape of Elvis Presley saying he hadn't had that many sandwiches and that everybody else had eaten them, so we nicked that and shoved it on the end of the recording" said Johnny

But that wasn't the only performance for 'Boats Not Ships' whilst Jon was studying at College. "We managed to get to play a John Peel Road Show which for an indie band was a great possible leap forward. We played with 'The Three Wise Men' who were a rap group." At this point Johnny starts laughing. "And I remember walking into their dressing room and them saying 'yo what ya jive to' and me saying 'we're a pop group thank you very much'. It was very strange. But we played the John Peel Road Show and we were the worst we'd ever been, we were absolutely appalling. The guitarist was so out of it he started the wrong song every time. The drummer had no idea what he was doing. Dave and I tried to hold it together, failed dismally, absolute shambles, broken guitar, always broken guitar strings anyway, but broken guitars, broken amplifiers and everything. It was a total shambles. It was unlistenable. Typically Peel loved it!" said Johnny laughing out loud.

"We met John Peel and he said he loved it and 'please send me in a tape with all your contact details and we'll book up a session'. That was brilliant. Seemed like a fantastic step forward. Typically I then messed that up by going into a studio and recording properly. So I had all these ideas about recording, what it should sound like and used them all. I over produced it and tried to make it sound as good as I could but it ended up as a light weight pop record which is what we were interested in doing, but played live it was an absolute shambles. John Peel liked it when we were an absolute shambles and obviously loathed it when we weren't."

So in between finishing College, disbanding 'Boats Not Ships' because only half the band moved back to Bristol, Dave and Johnny continued with their musical aspirations and attempted to find new members to join a new band putting adverts in music magazines but whoever turned up just wasn't right for what they had in mind. They played around with names and at one point 'The Heartache Express' was used all but briefly. In between Dave and Johnny took day jobs and continued their search. However time wasn't wasted. "I used to concentrate on song writing a lot of the time. I did do quite a few songs in those days and I threw away an awful lot." says Johnny.

I reminded him of one song he had written during that time where the lyric went "I can't wait for it to snow again 'cause you can't make footprints in the rain". "That song still exists." he says. "That had a really good hook in it actually. We recorded that in a studio in Oxfordshire with some fantastic session musicians. I'll dig that out one day and see what that sounds like. We'd actually played that as 'Boats Not Ships'. We played that for the first time in Port Talbot once and we played there with The Bodenes." Johnny recalls

Another song I remembered was called "February Forever Girl" which had some sort of connection with Susanna Hoffs from The Bangles at the time. "Yes Susanna Hoffs. Somebody gave me a Bangles calendar and obviously it just stayed on February all year. It was February forever! But I've come to realise that songs are rarely about one thing and although they have starting points they don't end up being like that. I can rarely sustain an idea beyond the verse. Certainly the idea 'February Forever Girl' was an interesting concept because you have February which is a fixed time thing, twenty-eight or twenty-nine days and then you just suppose that with forever which is something that is obviously infinite. I thought that was interesting." Johnny says thoughtfully

In that case I wanted to know how he structured a song and how he went about song writing. "I don't think there is any one way to write a song. If I find something that I think is interesting then I will write about it. I have in the past written from titles and do tend to work an awful lot on lyrics and they will go around and around until I get them exactly right. I've written from melodies too." he says pausing for thought.

"In terms of structure I think that I've had a tendency to do quite linear songs in the past. Quite often I'll find a song where the structure is interesting and then I'll use that structure to see what I can put into that particular rhyming scheme or that particular way it's set up. But the chief thing about writing songs is that you need to have a reason and I realised that I just can't write them now for writing's sake. Certainly there is a lot to be said for having the habit of writing something every day but the ways of writing songs are many and varied. I've never done the playing with loops and that sort of thing though" he says.

I ask Johnny who influences him with his song writing? "An awful lot of influence comes from the golden age of popular song. Cole Porter, Jerome Kerr, that sort of thing. The structures of some of the Cole Porter songs are absolutely outrageous, so complicated. I used to know all this stuff, I used to know what influenced me. I now realise that I probably didn't know and probably don't know. I am certainly somebody who analyzes things so if you went through song by song I can certainly tell you which bits came from where, which bits I ripped off. Which bits I changed"

So I ask about his song 'Carol Mountain'. "The influence there was the Steven Gains book entitled "Heroes and Villains" which is about The Beach Boys. The stories and the song are taken from that. I read the book and wrote a song about it. Musically for 'Carol Mountain' I had a lot of songs that progressed whereby the chords dropped one note each time and I reversed it. So the chords pick up one note each time and that's all I did. Rather like the 'Four Tops' and Holland Dozier Holland with 'I Can't Help Myself'. They then needed a follow up hit to that and that was 'The Same Old Song'. Holland, Dozier and Holland took the melody and reversed it and it was the same old song".

Another song I saw the band play live recently is a new track called "Girls Just Wanna Dance". What was the influence there? "We haven't finished the recording of that song yet but Gregory, a noted 'Modesty Blaise' guitarist is a dancer. He likes going out to night clubs and dancing. I don't dance and Dave and I and Gregory had a spate where we would put on the most stupidest of flares we could and went out to crappy night clubs. We were '70's vigilantes, we had huge flares on and went out looking for trouble and it just came from a few ideas out of that. The lyrics came from just a few things that happened when we went out to night clubs and behaved stupidly. I remember the songs gestation period was very long and I'm pretty pleased with the final lyrics on that. I'm very pleased with it in general actually. There's this idea you know the bit 'You dancin' you asking, I'm asking, I'm dancing' thing. I've got some idea where I'm going to put that into the middle somewhere. It used to be from off the front of The Liver Birds theme".

'Modesty Blaise' formed in 1993 with Johnny Collins and David W. Brown as the nucleus of the band. Other musicians have come and gone over the years. I even remember their first gig at The Mauritania in Bristol that same year but are 'Modesty Blaise' bad for business because the Mauritania no longer exists? "An awful lot of places we have played have closed down or been demolished after we play there! The George and Railway, we played there, that's gone now. All sorts of places. Not just here, but other countries as well. We go and tour abroad and if we go back to places we've been before we often find ourselves driving past an open space where the night club we'd previously played had been." says Johnny. "We're getting large parts of central Europe demolished! I've no idea why that is. It does seem to happen an awful lot. Places where we have played then go out of business which is excellent!" at which point Johnny is laughing at the jinx the band must have on venues. - Well 'Modesty Blaise' played The Cooler in Park Street earlier this year and that is still open so maybe the jinx has been broken?

So why call the band 'Modesty Blaise' as the name is associated with a cartoon character. "I know." says Johnny "The interesting thing about that was that we spent ages looking for a name and there was this time limit on it as we were recording for a label in Birmingham. They were going to release a single and we had to plump for something. We rejected Belle and Sebastian as a name which I still think was probably right and I remember the day when the labels were being printed up for the single or the day the artwork had to be submitted, phoning Dave up and saying, 'why aren't we called Modesty Blaise?' We couldn't think of a reason and it just seemed like a great name because it was a name that didn't really mean anything. However Modesty Blaise is a 1960's cartoon character and people ended up thinking we were a real '60s band. And of course the Evening Post used to have the cartoons for Bristow and Modesty Blaise from the days when my folks used to get the paper. I just want to say in retrospect that 'Modesty Blaise' is a dreadful choice for a name because of those very same reasons that people think we are a '60s group and I loathe that now."

'Modesty Blaise' are signed to a record company in Germany and yet their album and singles sell by the truck load throughout Europe. They've even sold records in Japan and recently Johnny found out the band were selling in Mexico as well after meeting their Mexican radio plugger at a Music Industry event. Yet they are still to break into the UK market. "The way that I explain that to people abroad and that question gets asked everytime we go there, is that the British music industry is significantly more sophisticated than the music industries in the rest of Europe. I don't know though if it is more sophisticated than the US music industry or not but it's certainly more sophisticated. It's more fashioned based. So if I want to get on Radio 1 in the UK I'd have to be on a playlist and in order to get on that playlist I'd have to employ a plugger to try and get my record played or something like that. To get on Radio 1 in Germany the person from the record company calls up and says we are in Berlin, do you want them in and radio will say 'Oh yes but we'll play their record a couple weeks before hand to promote it'. It's less sophisticated. I'm not saying it's worse or better. I think it's better obviously and easier to get heard. Music is a very much DIY ethic now" explains Johnny. "It didn't take me long to realise that record companies are mainly banks and marketing departments. They lend you the money and market your product and then they take the money back. It's actually that marketing expertise that you need. And the British music industry is fashion led".

Johnny has crossed paths with many musicians and Edwyn Collins, formerly of 'Orange Juice' worked with 'Modesty Blaise' on some of their recording sessions. "Edwyn produced, what turned out to be our first single (Christina Terrace) as a practice for recording 'Gorgeous George." Johnny explains "He had a studio which we christened New River Studio on account of the fact that New River was next to it in North London. He was preparing to record his album 'Gorgeous George' whence a 'Girl Like You' was released, and he just wanted some practice before he did it so we went and recorded a single there which he produced. He played on some of our tracks as well. He is a quite astounding guitarist and it was a difficult time actually. I remember at the time saying 'I'm never going to have anyone else produce me again I'm going to do it myself from now on' because I found it very difficult. If you listen to 'Gorgeous George' or if you listen to 'A Girl Like You' and then 'Christina Terrace' you'll find they have an awful lot in common. A lot of the sounds are the same. It's the same instruments we used."

And talking of the song 'Christina Terrace' I remember the promotional video to that. "It was recorded in and around Bristol and of course Bristol Airport. I bet you wouldn't be allowed to do that now, film at airports!" Johnny says proudly as at the time that was a real coup.

The video itself was sort of James Bond-ish in a way. "Ummm yes" and he starts laughing. "At this point people thought we were this 1960's band thing, so the idea was we would shove as many '60s cliches in three minutes as we could possibly think of to get them the hell out of the way so people would realise we were taking the piss and that we're not a 1960's band at all. Nobody went poor by under estimating the general public. But the video was just entirely misunderstood. We threw in stuff like running along the station platform at Temple Meads by the train in black and white and it was supposed to look a little bit like 'Hard Day's Night' and Icaress files bit. My friend Ashton was in a role along the lines of James Bond Oddjob type thing. All of these sixties cliches, waving from the plane, riding scooters and then playing on the tarmac that was meant to look like the scene from 'I am the Walrus' from The Beatles 'Magical Mystery Tour' and various things like that. It didn't work at all. Everybody just thought 'oh look they're a '60s band and they are doing all that.' 'No, no they're taking piss, honest'." Johnny says frustratingly.

It was a fun video and formed part of a HTV documentary that Johnny was doing at the time. "The very first time I saw it was at HTV on a forty foot video wall in front of everybody else, and the first minute of the video, well it seemed like twenty minutes, is a huge great close up of my head which I saw on a forty foot screen and it looks like I've got no teeth! Oh god I hated that. But I quite like it when it starts cutting about. There are a few things I said at the time, no speeded up film because we don't want to look like 'The Monkees', no this, no that and virtually everything I said I don't want in it ended up in it. And so that has actually become the template for things that we have done ever since because we do things that we think are going to perceived in some way and they are perceived in exactly the opposite way. We do things that are funny but are taken as serious and we do things we think are serious and they are taken as jokes. That is a pretty good way of working out what's happened to us in terms of what we've done and that's been the way of the world for us" he says

'Modesty Blaise' have been referred to as the least hard working band in show business and I wondered why. "It's a James Brown thing" says Jon casually. "James Brown. Most hard working man in show business. I yearn for the day when bands and artistes have phrases like that after their name such as 'soul brother number one'. 'The most hard working man in show business'. And then 'Modesty Blaise. The least hard working band in show business'. It's not far from the truth. When was my last record released?" he asks. Well quite sometime ago but another album is in the pipeline.

The band are also referred to as 'purveyors of fine pop music since the mid the mid 20th century' and Johnny doesn't know why. "You have to write something and it doesn't really matter what you say it's just that we have a certain turn of phrase and it's the way we tend to use it But I don't take that stuff seriously. It's very much tongue in cheek" he says. "We are defined as different things in different countries. It always comes as a surprise to me. In Spain we were signed to a punk label called Animal but we were regarded as a Mod band. I don't know where this came from, I don't know what a mod band is but that is how we are regarded in Spain. In Germany we are regarded as a Brit Pop band. That's fine, you understand something from that but Brit Pop in Germany means a completely different thing. Radiohead are Brit Pop in Germany and it means you are a pop group from Britain I think but then they lump it all together. It's hard to define to have a genre that encompasses Blur, Oasis and Pulp. Three very different sounding bands and yet they are all classed as being of the same genre and we are too, a Brit Pop band."

But back to that album that is in the pipeline. What can we expect from 'Modesty Blaise' in the future? After all they showcased some new songs recently and the fans loved them. "I need to finish the songs we have, but we've come to the end of our contract with Apricot Records now and I need to work out what we are going to do, because they are quite keen to re-sign us but I'm not so sure. So I don't know what record label we'll be with or if we'll be with a record label. Who knows. The music industry is changing so rapidly." Obviously a lot to think about.

But fans want to know when the they can get their sticky hands on new 'Modesty Blaise' material. "We are probably a third of the way through recording the next album but we've been a third of the way of recording it for quite a while now. Part of the problem is I need to do the horns and the strings and for me to do that I need time and I don't have any time at the moment. But a third of it is done and finished and the final third I haven't started on yet. Eventually we will get something out to the fans but when and what format, it will be announced on our web sites." says Johnny

So would Jon consider going the same way as Prince with an album release? "What give my records away with ....... the Sunday Mail?! I don't think that is going to sell many more papers is it? I think the idea that he is not going to make any money in the UK is completely bizarre but it was a very clever move. The music industry has changed somewhat. It always used to be you lost a fortune by playing live but you did because it promoted your record sales. It's becoming kind of the other way round. You are losing money on recordings but they are the things that attract people into the halls to see you playing live and the ticket prices are higher than they were before." he says.

So how would he like to see his music released in the future, afterall I am a bit of a vinyl junkie and prefer that or CD to downloads. "I do like a physical format, but I suspect it will be both. It very much depends on how long I take to actually perfecting the rest of the material I've got to do and it isn't as if I've been working constantly" says the musical perfectionist. "Some of the songs for the new album have been around for a while, but I've been through all sorts of weird personal stuff which has meant we didn't do anything for several years. It's very easy to be in 'Modesty Blaise' because we don't do anything!"

But sometime ago Johnny mentioned doing some sort of Country and Western tribute or project.

What happened to that idea? "I still want to make a Country and Western album and I want to make a bossa nova album. I've got an album cover and a title for the Country album. But you never know we may well get around to it." -'Modesty Blaise' do Country and Western, now that would be an interesting concept and major change of direction for the band. - "I don't like tribute bands or if tribute bands have to exist then it has to be in some kind of parallel world. You just look down the listings of any venue and you'll find a couple 'Led Zeppelin tribute bands, a couple of Jam tribute bands, and you think oh what's the point?"

With another album release on it's way but no release date set yet, there is one thing Johnny would like the group to be remembered for and he concludes this in his own words "The least hard working band in showbusiness!"

Official Web Site: http://www.modestyblaise.co.uk/
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/themodestyblaise

Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill

Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.

The Wurzels Interview

The Wurzels - Forty Years On And Still Going Strong.

The Wurzels came to the attention of the British public in 1976 when they reached the dizzy heights of number one in the UK singles chart with "The Combine Harvester". It remained in the top slot for two weeks. Other hits followed but The Wurzels history goes back ten years earlier.

Founding member and lead singer was none other than Adge Cutler. He became known as 'The Bard Of Avonmouth' and could turn many a tale into a song that you could sing along to. It was 1966 and Adge Cutler and The Wurzels had arrived. They became part of the folklore in Bristol and Somerset, in fact the West Country. They had a number one local hit in the Bristol and Somerset charts with "Drink Up Thy Zider" and in early 1967 the song reached the national charts at number 45. And trying to describe the music Adge Cutler and The Wurzels performed was not that easy. Adge was once quoted to say: "I suppose you can call the sort of music I write 'good-time' folk. I have hardly ever written a sad song. I write songs so that people can sing them. They have got to be simple for me to sing them."

The band have had several line up changes over the years with Tommy Banner replacing Reg Chant on accordion and keyboards in 1967 and Somerset born Pete Budd replacing Reg Quantrill in 1973 on banjo and guitar. They continued playing many of the classic tunes such as "Twice Daily", "The Champion Dung Spreader", "Drink Up Thy Zider", "Pill Pill (I Loves Thee Still)", "The Shepton Mallet Matador", "Don't Tell I, Tell 'Ee", "Aloha Severn Beach" among others and their popularity grew.

Then, on 5th May 1974 tragedy struck and Adge was killed in a road traffic accident. It was devastating for the band and they had to make a decision on their future. Tommy Banner, Tony Baylis and Pete Budd decided they would continue as a trio under the name of The Wurzels. To them, Adge Cutler was irreplaceable and today Pete and Tommy speak of him with fondness and being a great friend.

It was two years later that The Wurzels hit the big time with "Combine Harvester" becoming their first major hit followed by such classics as "I Am A Cider Drinker", "Morning Glory" and "Farmer Bill's Cowman".

Today, Tommy and Pete are joined on stage with fellow Wurzels, Amos Morgan on drums and Sedge Moore (really!) on bass.

When I put in a request to interview The Wurzels they agreed without hesitation. For me they were part of my childhood, being a local band as such and hearing stories about them with several of my family members being involved in the local music scene, I was looking forward to meeting them.

I met up with Pete Budd and Tommy Banner at The Churchill Hall, Bristol before they were due to go on stage and perform in front of a large student crowd. When I arrived Tommy was full of smiles and described himself as the only Scottish Wurzel in captivity, whilst Pete seemed relaxed and enjoying a quiet smoke.

Both Pete and Tommy had worked with Adge Cutler and he a provided the solid foundation that The Wurzels continued to build on. Pete remembers when he first became a Wurzel. "It was in 1973 and that was back in Adge's days and then unfortunately Adge was killed. We went on and in 1976 that's when it all started with the 'Combine Harvester', 'Drink Up Thy Zider' and various other songs that put us on the map." Tommy remembers the days with Adge. "He was great to work with, he was good socially as well. He invited me down for three months back almost forty years ago, back on November 5th 1967 when I came down. And I'm still here so he must have had a big influence on me."

And then Tommy spoke of his first gig with the band. "My very first night, very first gig in fact was the World Cider Drinker Championships and we were the support to Acker Bilk and the Paramount Jazz Band. The compare for the evening was a young Bristolian called Fred Wedlock and we've worked with a heck of a lot of artists since then."

So from Tommy's first gig to The Wurzels first chart number one in 1976, what could they remember about that time? Pete took up the story. "That was the 'Combine Harvester' that was and it was our record producer who came up with the idea of doing this song. It was originally an Irish type song, it was Melanie's 'Brand New Key', she was the one that wrote it but there was this Irish version that wasn't very chart worthy so we changed the words to it to make it more West Country. To be quite honest we didn't think it would be a hit. We were told by everybody else 'oh this is going to be a massive one' and we said 'oh yes, bet you say that to everybody'. Then low and behold it happened and it went to number one for two weeks and then the follow up with, 'I Am A Cider Drinker'. Within a couple weeks we were back in the charts at number three. That was quite an achievement for us, the swede bashers from the West Country you know" and he began laughing as he came to the end of the sentence.

However Tommy chipped in about the first real taste of chart success before either him or Pete were members of the band. "Well Adge had got in the charts with 'Drink Up Thy Zider' which nobody seems to know when he wrote but it got into the charts in the summer of '66. It was number one in the Bristol charts and number two was Tom Jones with 'Green Green Grass Of Home' and that was Adge's big claim to fame back then".

With almost seventy-five years music experience between them, Tommy being a Grandparent and Pete being a Great Grandparent and a useful babysitter, they have had their fair share of memorable moments on the road. For Tommy? "The most memorable? Umm....... I suppose the first time we did Glastonbury, we did Glastonbury in 2000. You could say our big comeback. We'd never been away really but it was a stepping stone to regeneration, of public awareness .... yep". For Pete it was something different. "I think that would be Top Of The Pops, because at the time it was everybody's dream to have a number one record and there we were. We did it some fourteen times in that first year. We did the Christmas versions and all of that and it was ... oh it was great. We had met some great people like Elton John, people like that. It was every musicians dream to get to the top of the tree and there we were, like little apples hanging on there like." Again Pete starts laughing at his description.

I couldn't miss the opportunity to ask them about their worst gig and Pete finds it difficult to answer at first. "Oh I honestly don't know. It's hard to put a marker on the worst one because we go out there to enjoy ourselves." Then Tommy chips in with his thoughts. "I think Bracknell." At this point Pete is trying to recall the gig whilst Tommy continues the story. "Years and years ago we did a gig for McDonalds Staff members." (And that triggers Pete's memory of that night.) "And they were the most ignorant people we had ever met. This wasn't the ordinary staff, this was managerial type and it was at The Hilton Hotel in Bracknell. The guy who had organised it and booked us to do it, he came up to us after we'd done about two songs and said to us 'Lads if you just want to wind up now feel free. I have never come across such ignorant people.' And this was the guy who'd organised it and he was McDonald staff himself! It was lovely for us because they weren't even bothered about us. So we finished off and it was our quickest pay day ever, We only did three songs."

"I think it was the food more than anything ..... I think they were enjoying the food and they weren't interested. People were sat with their backs to you and you'd never do that, that is the height of ignorance to do things like that! It wasn't that they didn't like us, it was just, well they weren't interested. They were more interested in the occasion with the free food and booze and such like, but it was a long time ago and under the bridge." added Pete.

I wanted to find out more about the rumour that The Wurzels have their own language. Phrases such as 'Ow Bist Thee', 'Thee bissn't goin' far', and 'Thee's Got'n Where Thee Cassn't Back'n Hassn't?'. " What The Wurzeleze thing?" says Pete laughing. "Like I give thee a gert big dollop and that sort of stuff? It came just naturally. People started listening to the words of the songs and thought 'what's dollop mean?' And what do these other words mean?"

Tommy looked at both of us, a bit confused with a look that says 'what is he going on about?' "Well he's Scots man" says Pete "And they don't say dollop in Scotland!". "It's not Wurzeleze really, a lot of it is Bristolian. It's like a song Adge wrote years and years ago called "'Thee's Got'n Where Thee Cassn't Back'n Hassn't?' and that is pure Bristolian. He heard someone actually say it in a car park to one of his mates where this guy was trying to get his car out. He could not get it out of the space in the car park and he said 'Thee's Got'n Where Thee Cassn't Back'n Hassn't?' and Adge never forgot it and wrote a song about it." adds Tommy.

So how does Tommy cope with Wurzeleze I ask? "It's pretty easy really, it just lends itself. People ask me how do I get away with a West Country accent. I've never tried to do that and if I did I think that it's taking the mickey as far as I'm concerned. I'm a Scotsman. Being a Wurzel I wouldn't even dream trying to copy a West Country accent because then people could take umbridge because that is me taking the mickey out of them. But the songs, Pete has written a couple West Country songs such as 'I Got My Beedy Little Eye On Thee" and it's quite easy as the words make you say it properly in a West Country way." he says.

"The song is about a wise old owl who's up a tree and watches everything that goes by. It's like the little old lady who sits behind the curtains and knows everything like when someone calls at number four and someone calls at number five and knows everyone's business in the street, only instead of it being a little old lady it was a wise old owl." adds Pete. "The original neighbourhood watch!" Tommy concludes and we all end up laughing.

The Wurzels have been around for over forty years so what is the secret of their longevity, especially as most bands only survive a fraction of that time. "I think it's because we enjoy what we do, irrespective of what other musicians think. What we do is go out there and enjoy ourselves and I think it reflects on the audiences. You see them smiling. People smile and they associate with the songs with what has happened in their lives. A lot of the songs are very true. A lot of the songs are still Adge's and Adge used to write songs about people and what he saw in a pub. He would jot little things down and that would end up coming out as a song you know about the local fibber called 'Hark At 'Ee Jacko'. That was about the compulsive liar, don't tell real lies just little white ones and it was all based on that." says Pete.

Only recently The Wurzels have released their Greatest Hits on CD and from that is the single they recorded with Tony Blackburn. A new version of 'I Am A Cider Drinker'. "It was smashing to work with Tony because we'd worked with him previously in 1976. In fact I think he was the very first one to introduce us on Top of the Pops. We've got quite friendly with him over the years and when we thought about doing this single and using a celebrity he was the first one that came to mind. He did it great. We went and did the video up in Kent and he's a very nice fella." said Pete.

But behind this single release is a story that Tommy begins to tell. "We were looking for a summer release because that was when we had our greatest success before. It was the hottest Summer of '76 and 'I Am A Cider Drinker' has always been the most popular song on shows. It is much more popular than 'Combine Harvester'. So we thought about it and our manager Sil Wilcox said we need a release so what are we going to do? We said right lets do 'Cider Drinker'. We'll get somebody and do it for charity. We'll get a national personality to join us". Tommy takes a breath and continues. "So we thought what charity should we do it for and I was unfortunate in 2005 to have my prostate removed because of prostate cancer. We decided we'd do it for the Bristol Urology Institute which deals in care and research up at Southmead Hospital. It's a new unit there. We mentioned it to EMI, our Record Company and they said the royalties can go to it. Also Sil, our manager ran the London Marathon for the Bristol Urology Institute and all the sponsorship went to it. Oh, also we've got a cider named after us".

So tell me more about this cider, I ask. "Yep, it's true. Thatcher's, one of the famous cider makers in the West Country have come up with 'Wurzle Me Cider' or Where's me cider. Wurzel Me Cider is very nice. It's a bottled cider aimed at the club users and its very good. We hope it will go from strength to strength. For every bottle sold Thatcher's is donating 5p each time to the Bristol Urology Institute for Prostate Cancer Care" said Pete.

Moving away from the subject of cider which The Wurzels will always be associated with, what do Pete and Tommy really think of their ever growing cult status with the public? "Wonderful, wonderful!" says Tommy with a beaming face. "As Pete says it's our good looks that are attracting it really!" And at this point Pete bursts out laughing. I add that I'm chatting to two handsome young gentlemen and Pete continues with the banter "I don't know about gentlemen!" and Tommy adds "It's amazing. We just can't believe it because both of us are grandparents!" But young at heart they remain.

I begin to wonder if The Wurzels have any influences today in with their career and it's at this point they begin to talk about their manager. "The man who influences us without a doubt is our manager Sil Wilcox." said Tommy. "We had no management for years and years until 2001. We met him for the first time on the May bank holiday when we were doing a concert on Wells Cathedral Green. He came to see us and we agreed to work with each other. We'd give each other a three month trial and if we thought we got on with him and he was doing a good job and be ok and vice versa. We've never looked back since." And Pete then adds his praise for the man. "I think one of his strengths is that he doesn't believe in waiting for tomorrow. If he gets an idea, he'll ring up and he'll say I think you ought to go into the studio and make an album, just like that."

And talking of albums, a few years ago The Wurzels released an album of cover songs that included Oasis. Would they consider doing more in the future? "We've covered loads. The album, 'Never Mind The Bullocks' it was called. Gina G. was on there with 'Oooh Argh Just A Little Bit', then there's 'Make Hay Not War' and Robbie Williams' 'Rock DJ." says Pete and he continues. "You have to be careful what you do when you cover songs. You don't want to cover any classic songs that have been hits for years such as the Bob Dylan songs and things like that because I think you'd be crucified if you did something like that sort of thing. But every now and then there are songs that come up and you think to yourself you could do a good job on that as it has a little bit of an agricultural thing about it and it does work...... Well we'll change it to an agricultural song anyway. Don't make any difference!"

"There are some songs that deserve to be covered really in a light hearted way. Its like 'Don't Look Back In Anger'. If you know the original it's a bit dirgy being honest. Our version made it completely different and the good thing about that was MTV were doing an 'Oasis Day' back about four years ago or something like that just when ours was released. They were playing so many tracks every hour on Oasis, but for their advertising of it they had a video done of us doing 'Don't Look Back In Anger' and they used that for their advertising." adds Tommy

This provided the opportunity to find out if there was any truth in the story that The Wurzels had upset Oasis with their own version of 'Don't Look Back In Anger'? "No, there was never any truth that we'd upset them at all! In fact they didn't even know about it at the time because no one had got in touch with them about it and EMI had not spoken to them." Pete says assuringly.

"Sil manages The Stranglers and they'd always had free Doc Martens Boots. Pete and I had done the promotion for the song all over the Country and EMI's solicitors had done nothing about it. Anyway Sil thought dozy buggers, phones up the girl who used to work for Doc Martens and said 'are you still friends with Meg Matthews?' Meg who was married to Noel Gallagher. 'Yes big friends' she said. 'Is Meg still friends with Noel Gallagher? She says 'yes best of pals'. Do me a favour tell them the story. That was 10 O'clock in the morning. By mid-day Sil had an e-mail from the Gallagher's Management saying permission granted copy sent to Sony records. And that was it. It was done in two hours". Adds Tommy. "In fact they said it's good, it's great we like it".

And with that rumour cleared up Pete and Tommy got ready to entertain the troops in the student hall, just one of many gigs they'll be doing over the summer.

Many thanks to Pete and Tommy for agreeing to do the interview and their management team for making the arrangements.

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Bristol Urology Institute: http://www.bui.ac.uk/ AND http://www.wurzelscharity.com/ where you can download the single

Wurzel Me Cider: http://www.thatcherscider.co.uk/wurzels/

Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill

Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.

Interview with Fred Wedlock.

Fred Wedlock - Tales From A Bristol Boy.

My first recollection of Fred Wedlock was seeing him on TV when I was a child, presenting local TV programme 'The Good Neighbour Show'. And if he's reading this opening sentence I can hear him say. 'Wahoo, I'm not on my last legs yet, you know'. And he'd be right.

Grabbing the opportunity to interview Fred despite his initial hesitation when he was quoted as saying "My contact with the rock scene is about as close as a Morris Dancer is to Swan Lake", I explained that Bristol Rocks was embracing every genre of the music scene and he deserved inclusion even if he did say "I'm not sure it would do your cred any good to interview an ancient folkie comic like me!" However after his jokey comments Fred admitted "After 30-odd years of showing off on stage I am always happy to talk about myself!" So the date, time and venue was set. What had Fed let himself in for?

I have to say Fred Wedlock makes a good cup of coffee and should he ever open a Coffee House, it would be a great success. My plan was to do a short interview take a couple of photos for the feature and thank him for his time. However it turned out very different. The thing with Fred is that he has a happy go lucky personality and it's like meeting an old friend, someone you haven't seen in ages and you just catch up on everything that's been happening since you last saw them. Fred has this ability to draw you in, capture your imagination, whilst you listen to his stories and anecdotes. You want to know more and he can talk 'until the cows come home' and they say women really know how to hold a conversation ... well that's until you meet Fred! His life is fascinating. All too much to print here, but you get a glimpse of Fred Wedlock's world and his take on life. And along the way you may learn a new word or two that is not mentioned in the dictionary. Must be part of the Bristol dialect or Fred simply inventing new words!

He was born Peter Frederick Wedlock on the 23rd May 1942 in Southwell Street, Kingsdown, which was where the Maternity Home was at that time. Life began in Redcliffe and for all of his childhood Bristol was his home.

"I'm a Bemi boy really. We were slum cleared to Bedminster Down. Then I married a Hotwells girl and we lived in Clifton to begin with, then we had a house in Hotwells and then for tax reasons I moved out to Somerset.". Summed up quite nicely by Fred.

I referred to Fred as being part of the Wedlock Dynasty and at this point he starts laughing. "I've never heard it called a dynasty before!" Well yes, I think we should call it a dynasty. The family has a long tradition with football and in particular Bristol City Football Club. Wasn't your Grandfather captain of England? I ask. "Yep, Billy Wedlock captained England, captained Bristol City, bought a pub opposite the City ground called 'The Star' back then but it was always called Wedlock's anyway by all the locals. Eventually they said oh lets call it 'Wedlock's and in the early '80's we had a naming ceremony and it became 'Wedlock's'. It's now closed, ceased as a pub sometime ago, but its about to cease to be if the developers get planning permission and there's a fair bit of people jumping up and down about that one."

I asked Fred how he felt about that, after all it was a piece of Wedlock history and I cannot recall his opinion being asked by anyone in the media. "It's very difficult. I should for sentimental reasons say oh we should keep the pub and the family name, you know....... But what are you going to do with it? It failed as a pub through bad management and bad luck. If the Bristol City Trust was to buy it or any Bristol City fan was to buy it you'd probably get people in there every Wednesday, once a fortnight and every Saturday once a fortnight. How are you going to run the pub then? There's competition around. It didn't pull the crowds, so whether it's viable as a pub I honestly don't know."

Fred continues with his assessment. "I don't know exactly what they want to put there. Maybe it's the usual mix. Maybe flats and a shop or something like that. A lot of the neighbours say damn good idea, yes, yes, lets go for that. Tidy it all up because the place wasn't being used and it's a nice location, BUT it would be nice if it was some sort of extension to the City ground. I'm all in favour of the name 'Wedlock' being plastered around the place because, well you're bound to aren't you really". And Fred starts to laugh. "A lot of younger people say 'Was that you they named the pub after then' and 'Oh you've got that stand named after you'. Well Granddad did have something to do with it. It's nice and I'm very proud of Granddad".

So what about football, did Fred play a part in the family tradition or did he go in another sporting direction? "I played a lot of football at Junior school. We all kicked around because we played in the streets a lot. Everybody played football, of course you did. We'd clear the glass off bomb sites to play football. I was brought up in an area which the Luftwaffe gave a right old seeing to and they kindly provided us with the most wonderful of playing areas of ruined factories and cellars and jungles all colonised by willow and all sorts of marvellous places. Clearings were taken over by grass so you had chance to play games. You'd get a scruffy old ball and have a kick around."

"I went to Bristol Grammar School where they regarded football as some kind of work of the devil and you had to play rugger and cricket". With Fred switching to a posh voice near the end of the sentence. "But I became short sighted fairly early and not being the world's biggest, vertically challenged, well vertically defeated I accept that fact. So I wasn't really involved in rugby,. I wasn't much good at that, well I was a half decent scrum half. Small, nippy and sneaky, but hockey became my game because that was the nearest I could get to football and wear glasses. I played hockey for years. I played for the Old Boys, I played for the University, once for the County and that to me that was the equivalent of playing football except you can play a damn sight longer playing hockey because you don't get the twists or the bashes and strains that you get playing contact games".

And Fred's interest in music, did that start at school? "Yes. There are various clichés in my musical development. I was ill as a child. I had Bronchitosis when I was very small and spent about six months in Frenchay .... Its kind of bronchitis and asthma. Bear in mind I was living an area where smoke was the norm. We had the railway just over the road quite literally. The shunting yards in Redcliffe way. We had tobacco factories all around us. The docks were just one block over. We had Proctors chemical factory just up over the railway. So the whole atmosphere was total glorious pollution and so I was an asthmatic kid. It was the Doctor that recommended singing as a therapy! So I was duly recruited into St.Mary Redcliffe Choir. We literally lived under the shadow of St Mary Redcliffe, we were that close. It was a natural thing to trot over the road and be in the choir. Some things you can do and some things you can't and I just happened to be able to pitch a song and sing."

"I also enjoyed showing off because I was so ill as a kid. My Grandmother taught me to read. I couldn't move around too much so I became a very fast reader very early so I found that was a way of getting attention. When you are a small weak-ish kid, if you make the big blokes laugh and if you can sing them songs and entertain them they look after you and they don't hit you!" Fred starts laughing at this point. "So I became the sort of troubadour idiot. I could always stand up, sing a song and tell a story and read the long words for the big boys who needed signs translating for them!" with Fred still laughing. "So that's how I developed. I joined the choir and got my musical grounding there and then joined the school choir at Bristol Grammar School. I guess you could say I went into show biz very early because I just loved standing up, showing off and people looking at me. I just liked it." said Fred.

His first public performance was at the age of four. "I was standing on a chair in the public bar of the York House in Redcliffe which is now part of a car park. And singing 'Ghost Riders In The Sky' to the customers for which I was given thruppence, a twelve sided thrupenny bit which was a fortune" He starts laughing again with fondness of those days. "I don't know what I spent the money on, probably being a tight little bugger I probably horded it somewhere ..... almost certainly or it might have been .... you could get four chews for a farthing each. So four chews for a penny. We had farthings then and silver thuppeny bits, no silver sixpences, I mean. That was the favourite, yes four chews and you'd have liquorice rope and barley sugar. That was slightly more expensive, so if you were a little flush you'd have a barley sugar stick and liquorice root. We used to chew that and lemonade crystals, remember those? Vivid red and vivid yellow things and you had a little spill of them and you'd lick your finger and dipped it in. What you were eating was pure citric acid with colouring." So Fred's intake of food additives began at a very early age!

So what did he plan for his life? Did he have ambitions that he wanted to follow? "Well, go to University, didn't have any ambitions at that stage. It was the natural process. The school I went to were sending people to Oxford and Cambridge and then around the Empire to run things, to be professionals, have at least fourteen letters after their name. That was what the school was about. I was a slight oddball, didn't fit in. Creatives were regarded with some suspicion. Kind of a nodding acceptance but it wasn't a creative school."

At University Fred studied General Arts. "That's what we called it. English, French philosophy politics psychology, all that sort of stuff. Caving, climbing, hockey and drinking Welsh beer! I did a General Arts degree mainly because I wasn't academic in one direction because of my scatter shot interests and because it gave you the chance to meet all sorts of people. Being a kind of sociable show-offy, organising type of chap they kind of put me in charge of lots of the new intake. You got people from all over the world. It was wonderful. It was kind of a living course that you were doing."

As for working, a career, had music taken a back seat? "I became a Youth Employment Officer all but briefly. And then I thought nah, nah, nah, this is bloody silly, because I'd never really done a job. I didn't know about the world. I'd done the course but thought I'd go and find out about the world of work, so I worked at Lewis's for a while. This was before John Lewis, this was Lewis's Ltd, next door to Debenham's in Broadmead. I was sales manager for linens eventually. They put me on toys at Christmas, boy that was an education. I'd learnt more in that year and a half at Lewis's than I had learned at three and a half years at University that's for sure. What make's human beings tick!"

"My hobby was singing and this was something which developed at Uni. I'd gone there as a singer/performer anyway, by then I was a banjo player. Oh God we've got to go back a bit really. My Dad had a Ukulele, like everyone of his generation he clattered out a bit of George Formby. Anyway I found his Ukulele and found that I could accompany some of the very rude songs that came out of Count Palmero Varcarian's book of bawdy ballads" and Fred starts laughing mischievously about those days.

Fred continues his story. "I was in the Army Cadets as well. Rather fancied being an apprentice assassin on behalf of her Britannic Majesty. My mates joined the Boy Scouts and did useful stuff and I joined the Army Cadets and learned to kill. Seriously though, I used to sort of sing on camps. I used to take the ukulele along and sing these rude songs which added to my popularity and they bought me free beer and weird stuff like that."

Fred then discovered being a singer and entertainer had it's advantages. "At the Youth Club I had a bit of a reputation as a musician to pull the crumpet, so I thought this is bloody good. You got free beer and you got girls at the Youth Club. Thank You!" He said laughing. "I think I know where I'm going! So I kept on doing this hobby and then I got to University. By then I was a banjo player because my Grandmother had played a banjo in an end of the pier troop. She was arthritic before I even knew her so I never heard her play the banjo to my great regret. At the same time another banjo player arrived at Uni and he took the spot in the Uni jazz band. He was better than me and became very, very good friends. He also ran out of grant in the first term and sold me his guitar.So I took up the guitar and then another mate of ours had just discovered American Folk music. The Allan Lomax book of American folk songs which was our bible to begin with and then we discovered Pete Seger and that was our inspiration. Then we discovered Bob Dylan who came along and we thought 'oooh, hello this is interesting stuff'. Of course we were all protesting and stuff anyway, marching and banning stuff, getting pissed and chemically re-arranged. You know going out and pretending we were solving the problems of the world. There was the occasional herbal ambience around. Marijuana (speaking in a strong Bristolian accent), Mary-Jane, grass, shit, good shit man. What? eh?"

It was the 1960's and folk clubs started to arrive. Fred explained about the folk circuit at this time. "Originally folk clubs in the very early days were controlled by either the English Folk Dancing Society that put dancing first before song and were a bunch of blue stocking academics usually. They used to sing very very old songs and very very long songs and all very tripsy and nicey and all of that. Then you had the Young Communist League who saw folk song as a brilliant means of expressing the working class desires and ambitions so they were running clubs that were specialising in the protest side of stuff, political folk song. You had general purpose folk clubs arriving where you could go in and do all sorts of things and things polarised and generalised . You got people bringing the blues which became a respectable thing as well and then very early protest rock 'n' roll and proto country and western. A lot of musicians came through folk clubs developed their style, learned their stage craft there and went off in various tangents. They selected more or less which bit of the whole genre they fancied and then went and specialised. Some of us went into comedy and some of us went into rock 'n' roll and some went into blues. Some went to seed and some went and got proper jobs!"

I'd read somewhere that some people referred to Fred Wedlock as the West Country's Billy Connolly, but wasn't Fred ahead of him even before Billy arrived on the scene? "Actually yes, only because I'm a little bit older than Billy. He was also a folk singer and a banjo player as well, good banjo player too. I worked with Billy at the Cambridge Festival once, I think he'd just split from the 'Humblebums' then. He was lovely, delightful man. But then back stage everybody, almost everybody is. I can count the fingers on one thumb the number of people I've not liked in our business. Out front, yeah, you could see somebody trying it on and you're thinking you posing pratt, come on, ok, alright I know the game, you don't believe what you're saying but I know."

And what about his experience on the Top Of The Pops? "Back stage, when I was doing Top Of The Pops I was ensconced with all these highly famous musicians.You know who can play what, you know who can play triples, who can play that riff , you know who can keep in tune and you know everybody knows. You can't bullshit one another!" says Fred laughing

But when you were on Top Of The Pops singing 'The Oldest Swinger In Town' did you sing that live or was it to a backing track? Fred takes a sharp intake of breath to try and stop laughing. "Ummm yes, do you want the legal version? The rules were that you had to go in and do a backing track before. You had to do your own track. If you were going to mime you had to go in and actually sing the song and then mime to it. So you'd do it in the afternoon and record it. And then the backing was done by ........ well there was some nice little arrangement, I won't go into details where a certain group of backing singers were given the job of doing the backing vocals. My backing vocalists were as good as you could get anywhere and better than ninety-five per cent, in fact they were a damn sight better than the ones they wanted to put on there. So what we actually did in the end was that my band went up and they did a base track, the basic track and second time we were on Top Of The Pops we actually used their track but we took it in a different cover and rejected the track that the other (TOTP) singers had done which wasn't as good. We used the original although the other singers got paid and no doubt some of that money trickled down to some of those who had little arrangements"

Fred recorded the song 'The Oldest Swinger In Town' in 1979 so was it a bit of a surprise he found himself well and truly planted at number six in the singles chart in 1981. But who discovered the song that pushed Fred into the limelight on a national scale? "The song was on an LP of mine. Dave Cousins of The Strawbs was a good friend of very long standing from the folk days. He was then running Stockton and Darlington Radio and said 'you've got to single that'. We'd actually just done it as an LP track and we said 'bollocks!' At the time I was working with a guitar player called Chris Newman, who was wonderfully, utterly brilliant and we said 'no, no, no'. We're doing the college circuit, we're a concept band, we're more. We are a thinking act, we're not a singles band at all really. Dave said 'oh you are, you single that'."

"My manager then was a pushy dynamic go-a-head character in London and said 'well we'll try asingle, we'll put one out.' We did a thousand copies of this and put five hundred around the trade and then sold five hundred off the stage for about fifty pence a time and that would cover our costs. We worked it out if we go carefully we'd make a tenner each, me and Chris and Kevin, our manager. We didn't have a label and Kevin invented a name and called it 'Coast Records'."

Fred takes a sip of tea and carries on with his story. "Noel Edmunds producer got a copy and went straight into Noel and said 'this is great it's going to be a hit'. At the time every radio presenter then had to look for a band that they could kind of foster and say I'm the one who developed them, I'm the one who discovered them. They were doing this all the time. So Noel said 'yes OK we'll play this' and he played it on his Sunday morning radio show Dingley Dell. We were actually gigging in Brighton at the time and we'd stayed with a friend down there. Feeling slightly derelict we were driving back to Bristol at mid-day, Sunday morning feeling absolutely knackered, may have been one o'clock in the afternoon. Pulled up outside Chris' house to let him go back home and his missus comes out leaping through the window saying 'Noel Edmunds played your song, Noel Edmunds played your song, he played your song! We went 'oh bollocks go and make a cup of tea'. 'No, He did'. 'Oh alright, fine, ok cup of tea please' and we sat down. Then the phone rings and it just rang and rang for a month and that was Chris' phone. Mine was going daft as well. Everybody had heard this and Noel had apparently said 'this in going to be a hit. I don't know who this bloke is, I've never heard of this recording company but this is going to be a hit' and then he played it again! Unprecedented on the same programme. He'd never done that before. And suddenly the entire business thought 'ooohh, whose this, whose coast records, whose Fred Wedlock' and realised I wasn't signed up to anybody. And so there were company limos colliding with each other outside my manager's office in Pendonville and there was a great furore going on trying to get my name on a piece of paper and suddenly everything went really silly. Noel played the song again the next week and by then he'd found out who I was and saying he's not signed up to anyone and that's how it all came about".

Fred's career has been varied. He's done radio presenting and a lot of TV shows but has the rock 'n' roller inside him ever wanted to get out? "Ummmm ....... well its got out on several occasions. I've done stuff that has been pretty pure rock n roll. Ummm ...... I mean, rock n roll are meaningful words. Maybe rock parody. The old straight forward getting up and getting your rocks off and thrashing a guitar on stage....... no no I don't do that but it nice now and again to go animal. Put your brain in neutral and get on with it and that's fine, but only now and again. And then very shortly after that you think, lets do something with words and concepts".

Working in the music and entertainment industry is something Fred has really enjoyed. "Going 'round a huge amount of the world meeting a lot of interesting people, seeing lots of interesting things and the pure adrenalin belt of having an audience at your finger tips. That is terrific, the high is so high. The lows are pretty damn dismal but then you develop a skin about that." But when it comes to the lows of a career Fred doesn't think he'd been affected that badly. "I haven't really had one. Well maybe about five or six years after 'Swinger' I was starting to think 'oh they'll loose interest in me now, oh God I'm not getting the work'. You're always going to go through a phase where you have a white diary in front of you and you think 'that's it they've sussed me, they've sussed me now'. And then it all starts again, your TV series comes to an end and there isn't another one in the offing. And you think oh that's it." adds Fred

Today Fred's diary is pretty full. A lot of his gigs are not advertised as he tends to do a lot of private, corporate shows for business's and sports clubs for example.
"I did something for a friend of mine. He runs Gloucester Cricket Club and wanted a little favour, a dinner, a little speech and from that six well paid gigs have come. Two people came up and said can I have your card and then I do their gig and another comes up and 'can I have your card'" So a lot of Fred's bookings are self generated and word of mouth. After all he is a hard act to follow and what people get for their money is quality and entertainment.

"I do things for agents now and again of course but they just ring me up and say 'are you free on that date and can you do this gig and how much do you want?'" And you find him taking part in local festivals too, but not the rock n roll type festival. "I'm doing Trowbridge this year. And I do folk festivals, one day festivals, tiny festivals like festivaletes and that sort of thing. I did one in Manchester a few weeks ago and that was a one day festival. I do Art Centre things now, general purpose festivals like I'm doing in a few weeks time. I'm doing Gillingham in Dorset and that is a Arts week so they'll be all kinds of things going besides and I'm doing the Folksy music side. I'm doing Chippenham Festival in November, comparing at Trowbridge in July, I'm doing Poole as well. there's alot of things like that." says Fred.

The Wedlock music tradition has been passed onto his daughter Hannah. She sings in the Blue Note Jazz Band on a part-time basis and from the way Fred talks about her he is a proud Dad. "Hannah is a very very good singer, very talented I think and even, just like her Dad she is a very accurate singer. She can hear a tune and she's got it. She can look at a set of words and she's got them. I can't do that."

"We very very rarely sing together because she tends to do jazz and I don't tend to work with jazz bands that much. If she did country and western or did folk then yes, I could sing with her quite alot. But she does jazz, she does stuff that involves different keys from what I play in and different chords, and chords with numbers on the ends of them which I tend not to play. Things like the cube route of F# minor demished third inversion with flatted eighth. It's really not me." says Fred.

I had to ask the ultimate question. What does the future hold for Fred Wedlock? "Ummmm I want to work for world peace and do things ...... " he says in a silly voice and then starts to laugh again. "What am I doing in the future?.... I'm doing a play. I've done plays before, I've done playlets and variety. I've done sketches, I've done a proper legit play which no doubt you're aware of because you read me web site. 'Up The Feeder Down The Mouth' which I did with the Bristol Old Vic. So I'm doing a play! In Bristol and it's in the Tobacco Factory in November. We're also doing a couple of dates in December as well. I'm doing this with a wonderful singer, performer and all round humorous person called Kate McNabb who is highly respected as a muso, and her partner Kitt Morgan who is the guitarist of choice for anybody who wants a bit of decent guitar played on anything. Another actor called Ross Harvey who was in 'Up The Feeder' also has a part. So we know each other well and have done for some years."

"Kate's been doing a series of plays for some years now called nostalgia two handers, war time stuff ....'Yes we have no bananas' ..... sort of what is called ministry of entertainment very much forties stuff, its very very popular and sells out. We spoke for years saying we ought to do something at Christmas, work together again but we never got round to it and then Kate rings up and says 'Lets do it'. It's based on her fourth play in the set is called 'Mrs Gerrish's Guest House' and it's about this woman who runs a guest house in Weston in the fifties. So this is now going to be 'Mrs Gerrish's Christmas Stocking" where she has got a load of guests in for Christmas but an unexploded bomb has been found in her pond so she's got to evacuate the guest house at the last minute and move in with her brother who has a big house in Southville or somewhere. He is a camunchgendly old sod and a founder member of the Ebenezer Scourge Society who don't like Christmas. That's me!" Fred says with pride and a beaming smile across his face. "I'm her brother in the play and so we've got all these characters flouncing in and poncing around and doing all this and that. I'm really looking forward to it"

"I'm also doing a lot of gigs between now and then. I've been asked to go to new Zealand next year. Early November I'm in Spain, so it's a busy old time. I keep thinking I'll retire and I keep meeting old school mates and they've all retired, but I love what I'm doing. I've never seen it as a job. I've always felt very guilty for many years, in the early days, knowing that doctors were being paid less than I was. It's not true now of course because the buggers are earning a fortune. Umm .... but at the time I thought he's a surgeon and I'm earning more than him. That's stupid, but then you begin to realise what good you could be doing for people. I know this sort of sounds like sentimental stuff but I was doing a show with a local band called 'Mechanical Horse Trough' and this dear little lady came up to me and my friend and said 'that was wonderful'. She had tears down her face as the audience had been peeing themselves laughing and it was one of those nights it just gelled. And she says 'It's wonderful it's wonderful. It's the first time I've been out since my husband died and I'll be honest I was going to do myself in'. And she'd come out and it just changed everything for her. And you start thinking blimey, you know, you're actually providing a service for people as well. Psychologically helping a lot of people and so I don't feel so guilty, then again I don't earn anything like a doctor now!" concludes Fred.

Kathryn Courtney-O'Neill

Copyright: Kacey-O'Neill (c) 2007. All written work and photos not to be used without my permission.